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21 HP Kawasaki on a Dixon

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  • 21 HP Kawasaki on a Dixon

    This engine will stall out after about 40 minutes of mowing and wont restart until its had a chance to cool. I was told it could be the coil or the "RUN" relay. I did buy a new coil but after popping the cover found that this engine has two coils.

    Any advice as to what it is or a way to test to see which coil might be bad?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    I ran the mower this afternoon until it died, pulled the plugs and turned the key. Both plugs fired off like they should indicating to me that the coils are probably good. What normally happens is that I cannot get the mower to restart until it cools... could this be a relay or even a carb problem???

    Thanks!

    Comment


    • #3
      My guess would have been the coil.

      Don't see how it could be a carb problem.


      Quality Is Good ©

      Comment


      • #4
        maybe somthing else??

        Originally posted by Runningwild View Post
        I ran the mower this afternoon until it died, pulled the plugs and turned the key. Both plugs fired off like they should indicating to me that the coils are probably good. What normally happens is that I cannot get the mower to restart until it cools... could this be a relay or even a carb problem???

        Thanks!
        Possibly the valve adjustment is "to tight" if its not equipped with hydraulic lifters....

        Hypothetically what may be happening ??

        So as the engine heats up the valves , the valve train parts all expand enough so the valve/valves cant seat ,and the engine looses compression and stalls as described.

        When it engine cools every valve , push-rod and part associated with the valve-train shrinks a few thousandths of a inch ,everything relaxes, and the valve re-seats" building compression" and she fires up again.

        Might be worth a try (adding a little more clearance to the valve-train ) if all else fails, and you rule every other possibilities out.

        Or just try it for the heck of it!!!

        TANKY,

        T-MAGIC
        GOD BLESS AMERICA (MY HOME SWEET HOME ) !!!!!



        - ahum : Kawi piston at full speed just before crank wipes out and rod shoots threw block

        Comment


        • #5
          Supposedly the valves on Kawasaki Vtwins ought to be adjusted every 300 or 400 hours. This requires special tools. I read somewhere of guys *****ing about pre-mature engine failure because they didn't adjust the valves as they should. But I have two Kawasaki Vtwins with over 1000 hours each and they both run just fine. :alien::alien::alien:
          2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and future 2015 LSF RECEPTED AWARD recipient!

          Hortikulture Kolledge Grad + Licensed Master Irrigator + Certified Backflow Technician +
          Licensed Fert & Squirt Applicator = Jack of all trades, master of none.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not likely valves, Could be coils being boarder-lined bad so test as below;



            Also check the bowl vent on the carb for restrictions and gas cap for proper venting....

            Comment


            • #7
              One of our 19 hp Kawasaki's on a Hustler would run about 15-20 min and then die. It had spark so we checked the fuel system and found that there is a soleniod on the carb that covers the main jet in the carb. when you turn the key on it should open and when you shut down it closes the fuel jet so there is no chance of run-on. Our soleniod was tired and when it got warm it would close and cut the fuel off. If yours has this you may have the same problem. I would check the fuel system over and seeing it's the warmest summer on record vapor lock could also be an issue. Hope this helps.
              If Kawa valves should be adjusted every 3-400 hrs we shoud have killed at least one of the 5 we have, as they have over 2600 hrs and have only had oil and filter, air filters, cooling system cleaning, some starter ropes and one fuel soleniod.

              Comment


              • #8
                3 days and he couldn't get an answer.

                Originally posted by Runningwild View Post
                I ran the mower this afternoon until it died, pulled the plugs and turned the key. Both plugs fired off like they should indicating to me that the coils are probably good. What normally happens is that I cannot get the mower to restart until it cools... could this be a relay or even a carb problem???

                Thanks!
                Then i post something/ throw a possibility out as something to check, and wham the experts come on to tell runningwild it couldn't possibly be the valve adjustment.

                Hey restrorob what is the likelihood that its the coil when runningwild states he checked the spark immediately after it shut down, and he states the spark was fine.

                ACTUALLY he has 2 coils ,so what is the likelihood that both failed the exact time initially ,and continue to fail together at the exact same time every time he continues to use it??

                Possibly the mower has a mind of its own, and is teasing him by only sparking when he pulls the plugs out cause the machine has a comical personality????

                I realize your a tech for every engine made since the big bang created earth and the kawi motor, but usually if somebody troubleshoots ,and finds a spark when the engine stalls, that means:

                Yes it indeed sparks, because a spark is simply a spark and there's no magic behind it, so a true troubleshooter would move on to checking some other possible cause rather then waste time thinking sparks come in different flavors.

                usually if its blue and timed right it is good enough to start a low compression lawnmower engine or keep it running when its already spinning and warmed up, so i hope nobody recommends some kind of Mallory high performance racing ignition as the next great peace of wisdom.

                Also i hope he finds that box-graph type formula for checking ohms and resistance helpful "that you copied outta ignition checking for dummies", the cure ,but as i said already i see no reason to complicate things when a blue spark is plenty to ignite the mixture in any day to day mower engine.

                Personally if you think its the coils ,and insist on playing with the ohm meter why not just say :


                OVER 18 KQ is to much resistance, so if the meter reads more change coils

                Is it really necessary to take the" ignition for dummies" book literally, and waste time checking the other end of the resistance spectrum cause i never replaced any wires or coils thinking they worked to good, having less resistance then required, and they should be replaced cause "ignition fer dummies" says it shouldn't have less resistance then what they say...

                YHea, stoves and heaters ya might wanna know if the resistance is to low, but why would this be a problem at the points shown with the coil ????

                is it possible he`s got pop up pistons and shaved heads crushing the fuel air mix to 18 to 1 /18:1 and snuffing the spark with this Nascar competition mower and his good spark as he described is not good enough???

                Just to clear things up as to my reply and its tone , here's why!!

                i just love when the new expert comes along knocking someone Else's advice down as basically junk that shouldn't be considered even though you have no clue who built the engine , whether they were drunk, or hung over that day ,nor ignorant of any history about said engine like how hard its been run or if its ever been overheated which easily could cause seat erosion causing the need for a valve clearance check and possible adjustment.

                Considering you have no clue about the fact every engine is assembled by people of a different caliber and intellect one must remember engines are run by anyone starting with fruitcakes that never rev um past 2000 rpm while some tighten the governor to get 4000 rpm for the life of the mower cutting 5 foot tall grass thinking they have a bush-hog.

                my 1st thought is i`d say your probably a tourist here pretending you actually worked on engines for all 13 years of your life!!!

                next time pleas:

                Please don't wait 5 days next time after somebody gives advice, so you can come along and knock it down. Just give it when the person needs it instead of second guessing somebody else's opinion "thank you".

                To the other chap pilgrimrick you have 5 of these engines doing what???

                No disrespect but having 5 of something makes you an expert at nothing with the exception of possibly taking crayons and drawing pictures of this engine, because you haven't any idea of how another's was run , nor were you at the factory when everyday Joe schmoe assembly-dude came in hung over, and how certain engines mighta been slapped together.

                Maybe your right with the coils, but then runningwilds description of the problem was wrong.

                he said good spark ,"hot i believe "meaning he didnt need a microscope to find a white or yello mini spark.

                Hopefully he`ll get it running without sending for your housecall based repair service.

                TANKY,

                T-MAGIC
                GOD BLESS AMERICA (MY HOME SWEET HOME ) !!!!!



                - ahum : Kawi piston at full speed just before crank wipes out and rod shoots threw block

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK DIK HED,


                  First, A freakin valve issue will not show up 40 MINUTES into running. If there is a valve issue it will show once the engine warms up maybe 10/15 minutes tops.

                  YES, BOTH coils can stop sparking since they are tied together with a ground lead.

                  YES, They can be border line in specs and cool down enough to start sparking again in the time it takes to chase tools and remove plugs to test for spark.

                  As for my test page for dummies, That's why I post them. So the average non mechanic can PROPERLY perform test to eliminate a given part.

                  Jealous because your not smart enough to do that ???

                  Now I remember why I joined this dump of a site so long ago and never posted..... Azz Hats like you !!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I got rained out today so I thought it would be a good time to post a follow up and say that the issue is resolved.

                    After asking mower mechanics in my area that were not Kawa-certified, and refused to work on them the list I had resembled coils, relays, carb and I dunno while they scratched their hineys.

                    One of the long time local Husqy dealers here recently started selling the Dixon mower line and by default became Kawa-mechanics because of the Kawasaki engines that come factory installed. (Husqy bought Dixon...)

                    There was a guy behind the counter that came out to push it off my trailer so I could take mower 2 and go get some work done. He is not a mechanic, nor is he one in training. Great guy to deal with tho, he has sold me many things from behind that counter.

                    Okay, so the day it died for the last time, it died. Key didnt work, lights didnt work.... it was shot. Reminded me of the old style fusable links on GM ignitions. Anyway... we get this thing pushed off the trailer, he plays with it and I go back inside to speak to the manager. While waiting I hear that he does indeed have it running and narrows it down to the fuel delivery system. Thinking it may be collapsing fuel lines due to the heat and the time it was taking it to die he also thought to start with the fuel filter as it would be the simplest/easiest/cheapest fix. Wallah! Done. Less than 30 minutes after drop off a salesman fixes the mower when the mechanics were nowhere to be seen.

                    It hasnt repeated the whole dead keyswitch thing, maybe it was a fluke or just God telling me to take it in instead of milkin it as far as I could...

                    I fealt like an idiot and still do... but I am damn happy it was simple, cheap and my mower is back up and running.

                    Thanks to ALL who took the time to respond to my question and I do regret the delay in posting the fix/cure for the problem.

                    Have a great week all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i`ll make this short

                      Originally posted by Restrorob View Post
                      OK DIK HED,


                      First, A freakin valve issue will not show up 40 MINUTES into running. If there is a valve issue it will show once the engine warms up maybe 10/15 minutes tops.

                      YES, BOTH coils can stop sparking since they are tied together with a ground lead.

                      YES, They can be border line in specs and cool down enough to start sparking again in the time it takes to chase tools and remove plugs to test for spark.

                      As for my test page for dummies, That's why I post them. So the average non mechanic can PROPERLY perform test to eliminate a given part.

                      Jealous because your not smart enough to do that ???

                      Now I remember why I joined this dump of a site so long ago and never posted..... Azz Hats like you !!!

                      Your the only mechanic i know that knocks sombody elses post while knowing what temperature and conditions said engine was running in to be absolutly sure that a valve clearance problem will show up within 10 minuites of running.

                      Another thing is you must have limited experience to be positive of such nonsence not knowing different engines can be so unpredictable that depending on the alloys used and what part of the valvetrain is expanding when hot some wont start cold but will run fine hot doing the total opposite of what he was describeing.

                      And you have to be the only so called mechanic that insists the coil or coils are bad when the person insists he has a normal spark.

                      You remind me of the typical wanna be that has limited experience and throws parts like expensive coils at the problem instead of checking out the problem 1st.
                      In my scenerio he would have been out nothing by checking the clearance

                      If he had listenned to you ( Mr Restrorob)-(aka throw new expensive parts at it) he would have been out of how much cash ???,and then you woulda continued throwing parts at it untill the bill was how much ???and then swore to him he needed a bunch of crap that he never needed to begin with then finally told him its just worn out and to get a new mower
                      GOD BLESS AMERICA (MY HOME SWEET HOME ) !!!!!



                      - ahum : Kawi piston at full speed just before crank wipes out and rod shoots threw block

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TRANSMAN View Post
                        In my scenario he would have been out nothing by checking the clearance

                        He ALSO would have been out NOTHING by testing the coils moron !


                        I'm done with your stupid pompous non-sence..... Oh.....I fixed your spelling up there too !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A few ??? for the ace

                          So im to believe this
                          Originally posted by Restrorob View Post
                          OK DIK HED,


                          First, A freaking valve issue will not show up 40 MINUTES into running. If there is a valve issue it will show once the engine warms up maybe 10/15 minutes tops.

                          Yeah same to you "ace" DIK HED-LESS



                          You know this because you absolutely know exactly how much load this stranger is running, and the ambient temp, along with how fast his air cooled engine is heating up to the minute????

                          Funny, but on a cool day i can leave my hand on a typical clean engine forever, not burning my hand, and on a hot day couldn't touch it 1 minute after starting, but you know it to the minute (not knowing) if the cooling fins, or system is clean or plugged


                          YES, BOTH coils can stop sparking since they are tied together with a ground lead.

                          Both coils "CAN" stop working.

                          CAN leaves a lot of wiggle room for wanna be parts throwers


                          Yeah the earth can roll off its axis if the sun explodes also.

                          Considering everything is grounded to a common ground and were not running two mowers side by side calling them one, does everything electrical also stop because there on a common ground???

                          And without getting technical anytime a coil went bad on me the other cylinder still ran. You always have this ground problem causeing the customer to need both coils even though the 1 cylinder runs just fine????

                          Yes we have a master parts thrower here at LSF , YEE HAA



                          YES, They can be border line in specs and cool down enough to start sparking again in the time it takes to chase tools and remove plugs to test for spark.

                          How long does it take the "parts throwing mechanic wanna be knock everyone else goofball", to remove a plug anyway???? Do you wait till the next day or at the least:

                          Sounds like it takes ya hours while you read the book for dummies....

                          Chasing tools and cool-down???

                          Are you kidding me???

                          Where are you chasing the tools???

                          And there's a invention known as gloves if your that much of a dandy flower girl...




                          As for my test page for dummies, That's why I post them. So the average non mechanic can PROPERLY perform test to eliminate a given part.

                          I already explained that's plain and simply" more complicated" and stupid ,when you can just say the upper limit is 18 KQ.



                          Jealous because your not smart enough to do that ???

                          Yeah I'm jealous of a dandy dope that chases tools around the yard for hours(QUITE PROFESSIONAL) ,then has to cool down cause his hands are so dandy sensitive ,and you don't know what gloves are....

                          That's funny.



                          Now I remember why I joined this dump of a site so long ago and never posted..... Azz Hats like you !!!

                          What ??? are you gonna cry cause the tools ran away now???
                          You knock my advice then tell me im the bad guy .

                          Sorry i was eating on my last post so i wanted to understand your earlier answers so i can learn from "THE ACE"

                          TANKS
                          T-MAGIC
                          GOD BLESS AMERICA (MY HOME SWEET HOME ) !!!!!



                          - ahum : Kawi piston at full speed just before crank wipes out and rod shoots threw block

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TRANSMAN View Post
                            i wanted to understand your earlier answers so i can learn from "THE ACE"
                            OK, Just so you might understand this part.... That 17 yr certification was back in 06 so it's 21 yrs now then add the 12 yrs before certification, Yeah.... I've got a few burn scars from hot engines after sooo many years.

                            And, I like your "Parts changer" bit too. You just don't have any clue how my shop is ran. A part is NOT replaced until deemed faulty by testing or physical inspection, I don't run a car dealership as you are referring to.

                            You will never learn from this ACE, You've already shown your too stupid to learn.... Valve issues after 40 mins.... BAHAHAHA !!!

                            I will now act my age and let you slam your last post on me while I mosey on down the net....

                            It was fun sparring with you but I've got better things to do.....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I believe I've forgot more then you've learned

                              Originally posted by Restrorob View Post
                              OK, Just so you might understand this part.... That 17 yr certification was back in 06 so it's 21 yrs now then add the 12 yrs before certification, Yeah.... I've got a few burn scars from hot engines after sooo many years.

                              WOW COOL

                              And, I like your "Parts changer" bit too. You just don't have any clue how my shop is ran. A part is NOT replaced until deemed faulty by testing or physical inspection, I don't run a car dealership as you are referring to.

                              You will never learn from this ACE, You've already shown your too stupid to learn.... Valve issues after 40 mins.... BAHAHAHA !!!



                              Nothing wrong on my side ,or anything to do with stupidity..........

                              Its just a fact nobody can learn from the person their talking to (YOU),because you have nothing gain-full to teach...

                              You still fail to realize many factors affect operating temperatures that ultimately cause the change in tolerances in a valve-train, because it is too complicated for your tiny brain to comprehend, and your way out is to laugh.

                              You remind me of the type of person who gets an engine with a worn cam lobe or broken spring, or rocker ,and keep changing parts which continuously wear or break again ,and again ,sponging off the customer, and your to limited to realize there is a mechanical cause for the problems, but finally give up and change the entire motor declaring its just junk .

                              Then you lose the respect of the customer and loose everything.

                              I see wanna be aces like yourself all the time going outa bizz and laugh.

                              I could attempt to explain to you things like how the valvetrain geometry may be off ,or a spring is coil binding solid, but considering its completely over your head ,and beyond your limited intellect (you laugh) with a BAHAHAHA, and run away while your business sinks away, because there's no book on valvetrain geometry for dummies.LOL

                              VERY ,VERY ,SAD........


                              I will now act my age and let you slam your last post on me while I mosey on down the net....

                              yea while moseying around the net google "spark-plug removal" because if it takes you longer or the same time required for a engine to cool down ,calling yourself a mechanic is nothing short of a joke.

                              Most people are removing your complicated plugs in seconds, not hours or days or even minutes.

                              Are you burning yourself because your removing plugs left finger tight by hand alone, because your unaware of an invention called a socket and ratchet along with the new found invention called the glove???




                              It was fun sparring with you but I've got better things to do.....
                              Yes i agree.... Go google "plug removal" and get with the mechanical age.

                              Stones sticks and rocks are not modern tools anymore so please get with the times and refrain from using such things on customer owned equipment please.....

                              Good luck and things for you to research today.

                              Heat
                              Expansion
                              Contraction
                              Burns
                              Burn and general wound treatment
                              Gloves
                              sockets
                              Tools

                              Ohh most importantly (reading comprehension) which may need to be addressed first!!!!!:laughing:


                              Good luck,

                              TANKY.

                              T-MAGIC
                              GOD BLESS AMERICA (MY HOME SWEET HOME ) !!!!!



                              - ahum : Kawi piston at full speed just before crank wipes out and rod shoots threw block

                              Comment

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