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  • Zones Not Shutting Off? Need some help.

    Long post, sorry. But I would appreciate any help.

    Okay, I don't really do irrigation because there isn't a huge demand around here for it (in the past). But the companies that do it are just horrible.


    So anyway, I got a call from a commercial location that still hasn't had their system turned on yet! It has been rescheduled 3 times now. Flowers are of course dying. Irrigation guy said he couldn't come out until next Thursday. Geeze.

    Manager said the whole system was gone over last year and worked fine. But a semi ran over a corner area and busted the lines. No big deal.


    I fixed the entire corner today, 1.5" PVC - 1" PVC, cake walk.


    I start checking to see what zones work properly and turn on the control valves as I go. I set the controller to run just one station and it would come on. I'd go look, then turn the underground valve on for the next location.

    Well, doing this made the pressure drop in the one prior and the new one started right up, even though I didn't select it to run yet. This kept happening until most of the zones were on.....all losing more pressure as I went because every one of them was running at the same time......even though I still was only checking one zone with the controller.


    Turned the controller to OFF, zones kept running. A couple of the zones did shut off okay (like #2 and #3).

    I had to shut off the water supply to stop them from running, even though at that point they were just spitting up water about 2'.



    Model is the Rainbird ESP 16-LX Plus. There are 15 zones. Truck ran over zone 4, but the control valve seemed okay.



    Any ideas?
    a.k.a.---> Erich

    www.avalawnlandscaping.com


    Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
    Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Scaper-S2k View Post

    I start checking to see what zones work properly and turn on the control valves as I go. I set the controller to run just one station and it would come on. I'd go look, then turn the underground valve on for the next location.
    Are you manually turning the valves on? The controller will do that, then it will shut them off. From way it sounds you have all the valves open manually? You need to close them. I may have misread.
    I am the one and only YardRat! Just call me "The Rat"

    Comment


    • #3
      Okay, I might be messing up the lingo a bit. I opened the cover for the first zone and turned on the supply valve for that zone. Went back to the controller and took it off 'auto' mode so that I could control each zone manually. Turned on zone one, it came on.

      I walked over to the next zone valve box and turned it's supply valve on, heard the water rush through to fill up the empty line. Turned controller to that zone, it came on and the first zone went off. Great. I did this until I got up to about #5 or so.


      When I went back to the controller to turn off zone 4 and check only the 5th zone, 4 stayed running. I did this for each zone to where eventually the water was flowing through every head at the same time.....obviously water pressure was barely lifting the heads at that point.

      I had no control over man of the individual zones.


      Then for whatever reason, they would not stop running even when the whole unit was turned to OFF! Except that very first zone.




      The date/time has the minute number blinking, not sure if that means anything or not. The manual said that it any part was blinking, a surge may have caused issues and to pull the battery to reset it. But that was going to be a last resort because I didn't want to go back through and program the damn thing if it wasn't the issue.



      If the whole unit is turned off, why would there be any heads on at that point?
      a.k.a.---> Erich

      www.avalawnlandscaping.com


      Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
      Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay, so here's a photo as close to it as I could find.





        Where it says 'On/Off', The ones at this place had that, but it was shaped more like a handle. Do I need to manually turn that on to get water flowing through that zone? Or will it do it on it's own? I assumed they all must be turned on so water pressure would pressurize the entire system, then that valve would have an electronic relay that would just shut it off with some type of easy back flow control per zone.


        I didn't think the motor had enough power to actually turn that valve on and off......so I turned them all on! Hmmmm, that would explain it though.




        So is that my issue? If so, that was pretty easy. You may have won a prize.


        I guess that would also cause them to stay on after the controller was shut down too?
        a.k.a.---> Erich

        www.avalawnlandscaping.com


        Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
        Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Scaper-S2k View Post
          Okay, so here's a photo as close to it as I could find.





          Where it says 'On/Off', The ones at this place had that, but it was shaped more like a handle. Do I need to manually turn that on to get water flowing through that zone? Or will it do it on it's own? I assumed they all must be turned on so water pressure would pressurize the entire system, then that valve would have an electronic relay that would just shut it off with some type of easy back flow control per zone.



          I didn't think the motor had enough power to actually turn that valve on and off......so I turned them all on! Hmmmm, that would explain it though.




          So is that my issue? If so, that was pretty easy. You may have won a prize.


          I guess that would also cause them to stay on after the controller was shut down too?
          Skaper, Those valves should be off. The controller will open them. The "on" / " off" is for manual operation of that valve only. The problem is that all valves are set to manual "on" operation and water is coming out everywhere.

          A valve stays closed because the surface area above the diaphragm is about two-and-half times larger than the pressurized surface area below the diaphragm. The difference causes a greater force above the diaphragm than below it. The valve traps the water, which fills the upper chamber. The valve will open only when the force above the diaphragm has been relieved. This will happen electrically when the controller energizes the solenoid or manually when you use the manual bleed.

          The solenoid is a coil of electrical wire that, when charged with an electrical current from the controller, creates a magnetic force and pulls up a small, metal plunger inside the valve. As the plunger rises, it dumps water from the chamber above the diaphragm to a lower (downstream) pressure area. This reduces the force above the diaphragm and the valve opens.

          To close a valve, the irrigation controller stops sending an electrical current to the solenoid. As the current terminates, the solenoid drops the plunger and stops the flow of water from above the diaphragm. The pressure above the diaphragm builds to a force greater than the pressure below the diaphragm, and the valve closes.

          This also occurs when you operate the valve manually. When you open the manual bleed screw, you relieve the force above the diaphragm either to the atmosphere or to the downstream side of the valve.


          Whats my prize?
          I am the one and only YardRat! Just call me "The Rat"

          Comment


          • #6
            It's funny, I can build a house with all the plumbing and electrical work with no issues. But I just had a different idea in my head about how those irrigation valves were working.

            Okay, I will go back and turn them all off, that should fix the problem then. Kinda funny really.

            I assume I just need to tighten them down slightly snug, but not too tight? I wasn't paying much attention to how tight they were when turning them on.



            As for your prize? Well, I was just going to do another "whoever posts last" thread with a new tool being the prize. I may just hold off on that thread now. Let me think about it......I got some other idears.
            a.k.a.---> Erich

            www.avalawnlandscaping.com


            Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
            Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

            Comment


            • #7
              Ya get it working yet?
              I am the one and only YardRat! Just call me "The Rat"

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeh, I went there this morning, manually turned all the valves closed and it worked just fine. I did have to do some minor adjustments, but they all work. I did find a major leak under the Chipotle next door. They just had their landscaping redone and one of their guys must have smacked the main line with a pick.




                I really appreciate you helping me out. I know it was just a simply deal, but it made all the difference. I just pictured the mechanism working differently in my head. Now it all makes sense and I'm good to go.


                Thanks for the quick help.
                a.k.a.---> Erich

                www.avalawnlandscaping.com


                Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
                Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looks like the rat man knows his irrigation.
                  Conan, what is best in life? To crush the Democrats, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentation of the liberals.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the YardRat is one of steve-o's buddys.

                    Originally posted by jrservices View Post
                    Looks like the rat man knows his irrigation.
                    i can vouch that he ain't no everyday run of the mill yardrat.


                    steve
                    "THE BADDEST LAWN APE ON THE PLANET"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I thought I smelt RAT!

                      Originally posted by delasgh View Post
                      i can vouch that he ain't no everyday run of the mill yardrat.


                      steve
                      Nah, the Rat is just a plagiarizing fool.

                      The contents of his info (word for word) can be found in this article. http://www.grounds-mag.com/mag/groun...gation_valves/
                      2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and future 2015 LSF RECEPTED AWARD recipient!

                      Hortikulture Kolledge Grad + Licensed Master Irrigator + Certified Backflow Technician +
                      Licensed Fert & Squirt Applicator = Jack of all trades, master of none.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow, KolLeGe BoYz is being a meanie to the Rat....

                        Originally posted by MASTERMOWER View Post
                        Nah, the Rat is just a plagiarizing fool.

                        The contents of his info (word for word) can be found in this article. http://www.grounds-mag.com/mag/groun...gation_valves/
                        KolleGe BoyZ, Why in the hell type all that when you can paste and copy? Didn't you learn anything in KolLegE? Like doing stuff the easy way......Nah you didn't, you still out there cutting 28 yards a day by your self sweating your nuts off.............Like I said, hire some people to do that grunt work for you.........While you sweat today, I think I'll sit in the a/c..........
                        I am the one and only YardRat! Just call me "The Rat"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This isn't about me, but nice try. . .

                          Originally posted by yardboy View Post
                          KolleGe BoyZ, Why in the hell type all that when you can paste and copy? Didn't you learn anything in KolLegE? Like doing stuff the easy way......Nah you didn't, you still out there cutting 28 yards a day by your self sweating your nuts off.............Like I said, hire some people to do that grunt work for you.........While you sweat today, I think I'll sit in the a/c..........
                          There is more to it than 'just being easy.' It's just plain wrong and misleading how you went about it. There is nothing wrong with C&Pin' off the net, but if you're gonna do it give credit to your source (are you too lazy to do that?). Apparently you should have gone to skool to learn this. While some read your info and were impressed with your 'knowledge', I read it (and instantly found your article you plagiarized from) and developed the notion you are an idiot. Is this true?
                          2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and future 2015 LSF RECEPTED AWARD recipient!

                          Hortikulture Kolledge Grad + Licensed Master Irrigator + Certified Backflow Technician +
                          Licensed Fert & Squirt Applicator = Jack of all trades, master of none.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For what it's worth, I figured it was info he got from somewhere, and it did help a lot. And that was what I was hoping for.
                            a.k.a.---> Erich

                            www.avalawnlandscaping.com


                            Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
                            Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              MR MM has said The great RAT is an Idiot? WTH? You jealous........

                              Originally posted by MASTERMOWER View Post
                              I read it (and instantly found your article you plagiarized from) and developed the notion you are an idiot. Is this true?
                              Idiot, I don't tink sooooo...........I copy and pasted the first search I could find to get some info on the ordeal at hand....
                              People copy and paste everyday without rediting sources on forums. Why you get so upset over this? Scared someone without a Hort degree is a little smarter than you, so you went searching for "proof". Get real KolLeGe BoYz...........

                              Originally posted by Scaper-S2k View Post
                              For what it's worth, I figured it was info he got from somewhere, and it did help a lot. And that was what I was hoping for.
                              See MM, Mr Skaper figured I got it somewhere, so whats the problem. He asked the question and I tried to help him out. Then you verbally lash the RAT for copying something. Me tink you hurt me feelings....
                              I am the one and only YardRat! Just call me "The Rat"

                              Comment

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