Customer refuses to pay me!!!!!!! Advice??

[Bobby D]

A customer sent me payment for half of what he owed me. When we called him, he became irate yelling at me and telling me his lawn looks like "junk". He is totally lying to me, he has one of the best looking lawns in the neighborhood. I think he does this every year and skips out on the last couple payments, and cancels service. I have no written contract with him. But I am pissed and just want as much of my money back as I can get. This guy loved me all year, now hates me for no reason. He yelled at me on the phone and told me if I wanted to complain to call someone else. Then he hung up on me!

What can I do? What course of action do I have? I am furious over this and just want my money.
[!][!][!]

[Scaper-S2k]

reply

Go over and take a few pictures of his lawn. Send him a letter asking him to state what he did not like about the lawn. Compare notes.

Some people will do anything to save some cash. Don't let them get the best of you. You don't need a written contract for this. If he haa paid you numerous times for the same work, it's obvious he was willing to pay that amount of money for the job. Bill him for the amount he did not pay. Give him 30 days. If nothing, write him a letter stating he has 2 weeks to pay up or court. And follow though.

There really is nothing else you can do if he is not cooperative.

[cole1980]

reply

Good post. Friend of mine did a clean up job for $650.00, Lady sent him $300.00 only. She said didn't move all limbs out of yard. Said left branches in back. We took pics of before & after. Everything was done. We brought them to her. He told her if she didn't pay he would take to court. She had her check in mail the next day. It is amazing what the word court or sue does to people's attitude.

E.Cole

[grasshopper]

reply

Hey Bobby, I feel your pain man! I got a call from a lady one time who I didn't even know, nor do I know how she got my number begging me to come a do a cleanup job on her yard that day. Said her son was coming into town the next day with his wife and kids and she hadn't seen him in over ten years and wanted the yard to look nice. I told her that I couldn't get there that day and she literally begged me. I felt bad for her, so I went and did the job which took my buddy and I about 5 hours to do. When we told her it was going to be $650 with the costs and everything, she about had a heart attack. She said she had only planned on paying me $10/hr, which comes to $50. Then I about had a heart attack. Next she began comparing me to the hispanic guys down the street who most likely aren't even citizens and said that they only charge her $10/hr...bla bla bla. I ended up walking away with only $400. Man was I pissed. I did her a huge favor at the last minute and that was what I get. People will do whatever it takes to screw you over. I would do what Scaper recommended and take it from there. If you never get your money, just bite the bullet this time, but be more aware of people liek this form here on out.

[Bobby D]

reply

I am very distraught about this whole thing. Its like I didnt even know this guy, for months he treated me good, then one day he flips out and loses his mind. Now I know how the family members of the Sniper feel. I am doing only contracts next year. I am even thinking about requiring a credit card number so I can simply charge them right after I do the lawn. I would not have to wait to get paid from them. The 2% fees to do this would be made up in interest that collects on the money while its in my account. Then I would not have to worry about this. It happens every season about once. And its always at the end of the year. I think they all just want to skip out of paying the final bill, then find another company next spring who is naive like I was. This whole BS is really bumming me out, especially since he told me his lawn looks like "junk". Man, what a damn liar. Not only that, but he is a business owner himself. Can you believe that? I'm still in shock over the reaming I took over the phone from him. I hope none of you guys ever have to go through this type of ordeal.
:-(

[srlawnservice]

reply

If you are small, depending on the amount of money owed, say less than 500, it probably wouldn't be worth your time and effort to go to court. If he calls back again wanting you to do work, charge him cost of the new job, plus what he owes, plus an extra fee that YOU determine. Don't give in and let him "just give what he owes" or you will have the same problem later. Or give in but demand the owed money up front, then give him an exhorbant estimate on the new job. Do all you can to get rid of this customer.

RL

[Sammy]

reply

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by grasshopper</i>
<br /> I felt bad for her, so I went and did the job which took my buddy and I about 5 hours to do. When we told her it was going to be $650 with the costs and everything, she about had a heart attack.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Did you give her the price up front or after you finished the job ?

[Terry]

reply

Bobby

Let this be a lesson for you.

This guy knows you have no recourse and is playing the system.

I know you have a computer or you would not be at this ever so fine site. Do not perform any business transactions without having a signed contract. All you need is a standard form saved in a folder in your computer, all you have to do is change name, address, prices, and scope of services, takes about 5-10 minutes for residential maintenance work. Of course a contract can be challanged, anything can be challanged, but if the client knows you do not have anything in writing your chances of not getting paid are greater. if a client knows they signed a professional, well written contract, they are less likely to pull that stuff.

People amaze me. They don't take the time get things in writing as any professional, organized contractor would do.....then they cry about not getting paid.

And even what is more amazing is that no one else who responded, mentioned getting things in writing.

Don't be so concerned about how to get your money, <b>you need to be concerned about how to prevent this from happening in the future</b>. []

If my response may sound strong, I'm only trying to get the point across.

[Scaper-S2k]

reply

Contracts are great for commercial jobs. We use them all the time. But residentials are not as willing.

Fact is, there is nothing he could have put in the contract that would have simplified this exact matter. A contract has to have an equal way out for both parties...or it is worthless. So, let's say your contract said you get paid for the work performed. You must include that the work will be performed to the liking of the client, or the contractor has the option of re-doing the work. So, how many times will you go back and re-do a job that the client says "looks like junk"??

Signed contract or not, the client can simply say the work was not done properly.

The only worth while contract would be a blanket contract for the whole year. Then weekly signed 'approvals' by the client for the work performed each time. This would mean they WERE satisfied before you left the property, and agreed on price. Without that, the contract is trash. Because they can always argue the service was not 'up to industry standards'. Know what I mean?


You can't rip people off simply because there's no WRITTEN contract.

[Terry]

reply

Scaper-S2k - ethically you are absolutely correct, legally and in the court house are as so wrong, so wrong that it is comical. I take it from you and Zachery cattin and mousin that you do not like to be told you are wrong?? Well in this case you are.

In our younger years our company has been through this so many times, till we had a client who is an attorney explain how contracts work and how people will try their hardest to get something for nothing. Lets think about it, have you ever seen a poor attorney or an empty courthouse?? Theres a reason the court systems are so busy and theres a reason an attorney can afford lawn services. [:0]

Scaper-S2k have you even had a client not pay???

What is the difference between a residential not paying vs a commercial not paying?? Money owed to someone, especially a working man, is MONEY OWED TO SOMEONE. The person at the commercial account that accepted the agreement whether its verbal or writen is just as human as you, I, and the residential clients.

The only difference between residential and commercial in regards to contracts and money is that a commercial property is more likely to file for bankruptcy than a personal individual. A personal individual needs their credit to buy the new family min-van. A commercial account can file bankruptcy, clear their debts, go out of busines operate under a new name all in the same day, without skipping a beat. And thats the only difference in this regards.

It is obvious this client that Bobby is discussing is not concerned with ethics. Ethical people do not try to screw over the working man. Like I said, it takes 10 minutes to type up a contract, what do you have to loose?

<i>Edited by Admin</i>

[grasshopper]

reply

Regardless of a written contract or not, the client is still oblligated to pay. I verbal agreement is a binding contract, and that's a fact. All Bobby has to do to prove that this guy had verbally agreed to pay him to do his lawn is show proof that he had been paying him all year as Bobby stated. If he can show that this guy had been paying him on a weekly basis throughout the year, then it will be obvious to a judge that there was an agreement between both parties. Not only that, but the guy is not arguing that the work was not performed, but that it was not performed up to par for him. If that was the case, then why had he been paying Bobby to service it all year without a complaint before. Scaper, you are not wrong, Terry is the one who is wrong. I have taken business law classes, and I do understand that not everything must be in writing for it to be a binding contract. Generally though it is hard to prove a verbal agreemnet, however, this case is very obvious that one existed.

[Scaper-S2k]

reply

Terry, I take no offense to your post. You're not proving me wrong, and I'm not proving you wrong. You really have no reason to try and look down on what I said. It was self explanitory and shows that a customer CAN get out of paying a signed contract by claiming the work was bad. PERIOD! Unless you do as I stated about signatures each visit.
GrassHopper is correct. Verbals are contracts, but harder to prove than written. And I stated that even written contracts (true legal ones) for this type of service can EASILY be voided.

I also stated my response was directed towards the actual occurence by the thread starter.

What I said stands. A contract is great, we use them ALL the time. There is no difference between commercial not paying and residential not paying, you're correct, I never said there was a difference. But, as I said, for that contract to be rock solid, it better be VERY long. And you better get it signed EACH time you service the property to show that EACH service was good. If not, guess what? It becomes VERBAL whether you were there and did the work!!



BUT if the client claims "Bad Job" the contractor is out on his butt in court....contract or no contract. This is a service industry. Not to mention a service that has a good/bad appearance every 7-10 days.

A TRUE contract that allows BOTH parties to get out is the ONLY legal contract in a service biz. That contract would be 15 pages long, and a need for signatures with EVERY visit. If not, they can get out of it.....see, that's where THEIR lawyers come in (as you mentioned).

Yep, your contract states that YOU will fix what is incorrect on the clients property to keep the contract from going void and to get paid. Ever had a P.I.T.A client?? I promise you, if they want to complain, you'll be at their property every 2 days trying to fix their problem, until YOU throw in the towel! Then YOU voided the contract.

Take your contract to court. Then listen to the client state that "Yes, they did the work, and I paid them every time, but the last 2 times were horrible and I called them to fix it. I also told them I was paying half until my property looked like it had in the past." "I can't even be sure they did what they claimed in the contract, it didn't look like it."

Now, if you would like to know HOW to keep the contract SOLID. I can state that for you. But it requires something with every visit.

<i>Edited by Admin</i>

[Terry]

reply

Scaper-S2k and Grasshopper - we have been in business since 1972. We average 1.5 court cases a year, so so far we have won 94.7% of them. We have been sued because someones remote controlled car rolled off a parked automobile as the guy running a w/b passed, we have had countless accounts receivable cases, we have had traffic/vehicle suits, you name it. We have crews out almost everyday, this comes with the cost of corporate business.


Business law classes, and the man who 'skated' around my question about being stiffed, is fine and dandy, but from experiences I sorta think I know what I'm talking about.

Yes, you both are correct. Verbal agreements are valid. But if you know anything about court you will also know that witnesses play a big role in the court system. Did I use a big word? YES "WITNESSES"! If you go to court for a verbal agreement and if you have a witness, YOU WILL WALK OUT OF THAT COURT ROOM AS THE CHAMP. I do not know about you guys, but it is seldom that witnesses are present when our sales reps dicsuss prices with our clients. So take your verbal collection cases to court. Its your word against someone elses word. No witnesses?? You just better hope the judge is in a happy mood. Heres 2 other new words - PROOF and EVIDENCE. The court system is all about proving your statements, you have to be able to supply evidence. A written agreement is evidence that payment terms were accepted. Just cause someone gave you a partial check for $250.00 does NOT mean they agreed to pay $500.00 for services, cause they very well may have agreed to only pay $400.00.

How many stories do you hear about people getting their cars worked on and when they go to pick up the vehicle they find out it cost $217.00 more than the original estimate??

If you don't want to get stuff in writing, then don't. And don't ball about it if you don't get paid. Its your company and whats is what is nice about being self employed is you may do as you choose.

I make mistakes everyday, and I learn from those mistakes. So if making mistakes is how you learn, then that is how you learn.

And if you do not want first hand knowledge and experience...then why come to this forum, or any forum for the matter?

<i>Edited by Admin</i>

[Scaper-S2k]

reply

Ya know, you told how many cases total, but how many are deliquent pay, and how many of THOSE have you won. If you didn't win 100% of them....then what I said IS correct, is it not? Contracts don't gaurantee you get paid for service work. Period.

You are trying to argue when no one is disagreeing here!!!

I USE CONTRACTS!!! Hello?? I USE them!! I never said you shouldn't. I mearly pointed out that signing a contract will NOT gaurantee that you get paid. And they are easily broken.


AND IN THE SITUATION LISTED here in this thread, a contract is not going to gaurantee money. Why??? Because the client was NOT satisfied with the service performed. SO, now it becomes a 'verbal' arguement, and the contract is worthless. Now if the work was good and the client liked it but tried stiffing you?? Fine, open shut case, contractor wins.

If you think a signed contract gives a company the go ahead to scalp the lawn, mow patches and plow over shrubs and do whatever they want....YET still get paid "cause it's a contract"; you are sadly mistaken.

An unsatisfied client CAN get out of paying full on a signed contract if the work is unsatisfactory.

Yes, I've been to court, yes, I have recievables that are way out there. But, I'm not dealing with small amounts under $1000. You are not typing to a chimp here Terry.




That's all I am saying here!!! YOU are chosing to make this more than it is. We are agreeing on contracts, I just said it doesn't gaurantee payment!!

<i>Edited by Admin</i>

[srlawnservice]

reply

Bobby D,

I always go with S2K's advice. However, in this instance I get the impression you are like me, much smaller operation than these guys.

I recommend this: as I said above, if it's not a lot of money, the guy will probably try to use you again, make him pay and THEN jack up his price. For guys like us (if you are a small operation) you don't have time to mess around with this crap.
For future jobs, if you do a big job, say 250 or higher, get at least half up front. That way, if it's a screwball, you are only screwed out of half. For the small guys, even small claims isn't worth it.

If you are a fairly large op, go with S2K's advice.

RL