Would you consider an old gas station for a shop?

[Scott]

Just curious if you think there'd be any repercussions from turning an old gas station into a shop. I'm sure the tanks are still in the ground but the service pumps are gone. Do I need to worry about EPA with the tanks? and what about possibly all the crap that was probably dumped out back or where old clunkers have been decaying and leaking?

[1Chavez]

The condition of the soil would be a liability issue if not checked and cleared before you purchase it. The cleanup of contaminated soil is not something you want to get stuck with and many insurance co's would want a clean bill of health for the soil give the post use of the land.
Other than that, should be a good site as long as:
1. you have enough room to keep equipment
2. safe location
3. building is decent (having a vehicle lift is great)
4. good advertising location

[MASTERMOWER]

A dentist here turned an old gas station into his office. Can't even tell it was formerly a gas station.

only image i could find.


Could you possibly sell the old tank?

[Georges Lawn & Mulch]

Just curious if you think there'd be any repercussions from turning an old gas station into a shop. I'm sure the tanks are still in the ground but the service pumps are gone. Do I need to worry about EPA with the tanks? and what about possibly all the crap that was probably dumped out back or where old clunkers have been decaying and leaking?

Everything you stated could be a potential problem along the line. Chances are if you're not planning on doing any digging or any other alterations that require excavation permits you may luck out.

I was considering buying a few acres of land that was originally a service station and a car junk yard. Plans were to crush everything left in the yard
and sell it for scrap. Once that was done I was going demo the existing building, fill and grade everything level, and construct storage units.

Once I got into researching the project and the permitting requirements it became evident that I would be liable for clean up of anything that was uncovered during the excavation process.

[steve-o]

I'm Thinking A Titty Bar........

forget the hazmat part. sign an agreement with the previous owner, hire some topless dancers and go with the program. geeeee, i'm so smart. :laughing:

steve-o

[Georges Lawn & Mulch]

forget the hazmat part. sign an agreement with the previous owner, hire some topless dancers and go with the program. geeeee, i'm so smart. :laughing:

steve-o

I would still have to move dirt to build a parking lot, but I likethe idea.:laughing:

[Crawdad]

How old is it?
If the old tanks are still in the ground, I'd rent it, but not buy it.

[Scott]

I don't have the spec sheet in front of me but I believe it was built in the 70s. It's been a used car lot for a while and now its vacant. I'm gonna pass, not the right area to go through all the red tape

[MASTERMOWER]

So it probably has the old steel tanks in the ground. Yeah, likely a huge liability. :alien::alien::alien:

[hardboiled]

In this area around the early nineties they started taking tanks out of gas stations that had become service only, or vacant ones, remediating the soil/excavated materials, venting the ground and testing it over the next months/year. I figured a station couldn't be sold these days without having gone through the EPA clean up first. Had you looked into that part of it at all?

The paving outfit I worked for had their in ground tanks removed and had to go to above ground with a concrete containment structure built around them. This was a region wide process I believe, saw a lot of in the Chicago area.

I do remember an x gas station used as a lawn service's office/yard when I was doing school turf in Wichita.

[MASTERMOWER]

Underground Storage Tanks
An underground storage tank system (UST) is a tank and any underground piping connected to the tank that has at least 10 percent of its combined volume underground. The Federal UST regulations apply only to underground tanks and piping storing either petroleum or certain hazardous substances.

EPA estimates that there are about 1.1 million federally regulated USTs buried at over 400,000 sites nationwide. Nearly all USTs at these sites contain petroleum. These sites include marketers who sell gasoline to the public (such as service stations and convenience stores) and nonmarketers who use tanks solely for their own needs (such as fleet service operators and local governments). EPA estimates about 25,000 tanks hold hazardous substances covered by the UST regulations.

Until the mid-1980s, most USTs were made of bare steel, which is likely to corrode over time and allow UST contents to leak into the environment. Faulty installation or inadequate operating and maintenance procedures also can cause USTs to release their contents into the environment.

The greatest potential hazard from a leaking UST is that the petroleum or other hazardous substance can seep into the soil and contaminate groundwater, the source of drinking water for nearly half of all Americans. A leaking UST can present other health and environmental risks, including the potential for fire and explosion.

In 1984, Congress responded to the increasing threat to groundwater posed by leaking USTs by adding Subtitle I to the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA). Subtitle I required EPA to develop a comprehensive regulatory program for USTs storing petroleum or certain hazardous substances.

Congress directed EPA to publish regulations that would require owners and operators of new tanks and tanks already in the ground to prevent, detect, and clean up releases. At the same time, Congress banned the installation of unprotected steel tanks and piping beginning in 1985.

In 1986, Congress amended Subtitle I of RCRA and created the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund, which is to be used for two purposes:

* To oversee cleanups by responsible parties
* To pay for cleanups at sites where the owner or operator is unknown, unwilling, or unable to respond, or which require emergency action

The 1986 amendments also established financial responsibility requirements. Congress directed EPA to publish regulations that would require UST owners and operators to demonstrate they are financially capable of cleaning up releases and compensating third parties for resulting damages.

The following USTs are excluded from regulation and, therefore, do not need to meet Federal requirements for USTs:

* Farm and residential tanks of 1,100 gallons or less capacity holding motor fuel used for noncommercial purposes
* Tanks storing heating oil used on the premises where it is stored
* Tanks on or above the floor of underground areas, such as basements or tunnels
* Septic tanks and systems for collecting storm water and wastewater
* Flow-through process tanks
* Tanks of 110 gallons or less capacity
* Emergency spill and overfill tanks

In 1988, EPA issued regulations setting minimum standards for new tanks and requiring owners of existing tanks to upgrade, replace, or close them. The UST regulations are divided into three sections: (1) technical requirements, (2) financial responsibility requirements, and (3) State program approval objectives.

EPA's technical requirements for USTs are designed to reduce the chance of releases from USTs, detect leaks and spills when they do occur, and secure a prompt cleanup. To meet the requirements, owners must upgrade, replace, or close existing UST systems by 1998. Tanks remaining in operation must have leak detection and leak prevention components. UST owners and operators are responsible for reporting and cleaning up any releases.

The financial responsibility requirements ensure that, in the event of a leak or spill, an owner or operator will have the resources to pay for costs associated with cleaning up releases and compensating third parties.

EPA recognizes that, because of the large size and great diversity of the regulated community, State and local governments are in the best position to oversee USTs. Subtitle I of RCRA allows State UST programs approved by EPA to operate in lieu of the Federal program, and EPA's State program approval regulations set standards for State programs to meet. States may have more stringent regulations than the Federal requirements. People who are interested in requirements for USTs should contact their State UST program for information on State requirements.

[Scott]

It probably has been updated years ago. I just liked the idea because it's not that large of a building, hence upkeep and/or remodeling and already has two bays. Besides,, it's on the wrong side of town.

[GeeVee]

Give me a ring Pro-Peller Head.

Just curious if you think there'd be any repercussions from turning an old gas station into a shop. I'm sure the tanks are still in the ground but the service pumps are gone. Do I need to worry about EPA with the tanks? and what about possibly all the crap that was probably dumped out back or where old clunkers have been decaying and leaking?

Renting or Buying? Big differences in the answers to come. I will assume you want to buy.

Yes, you need to worry about contaminated soils.

Fortunately, the site is not invisible to officials.

Therefore you will not be liable.

The state of the subsurface is all the same, anti freeze, gas, oil, lead, asbestos.... They'll all leave a signature when tested and its not arguable. Remidiation happens right away if the contaiminants are in danger of reaching "A" water supply, and in many cases they don't. they sit a a strata and the town wells aren't showing plumes of this particular contaminant. Liek I said, a signature.

You will need a testing company and an attorney- I will refer you to a couple when you relay the location. REGARDLESS of whether or not its been done by others in the past. Complicated? Kind of, but not hard to understand for a guy like yourself.

If remediation is needed, it will be on the current property owner, and not forced on you unless you agree to it. Good part here is, someone somewhere has looked at this site because so much contaminated ground exists, the GOVT has been "mostly" cleaning up for decades through grant programs and other funding.

IS it on a state road?

Give me a call. I run into this all the time acquiring ROW on my projects, and it isn't rocket science, even if its rocket fuel. Its common for old service stations to be re-developed and legal descriptions in the deeds cover contaminated and remediated properties.

Usually good cases for negotiating lower prices.


Sending you a pm with a number because I have a ton of questions for you.

[GeeVee]

never mind, I see you're passing

[bel-nor]

I am looking at one near me. The building has an office and two bays. Large paved lot and privacy fence area that could keep trailers out of sight during the day. I would probably wash cars during any down time to pay the rent.