Let's get down to the Nitty Gritty for the sake of the new guy.

[Jsanch11]

I hate to be so direct and to the point here but could someone please offer me some advice here. I am considering going into the Lawn Care/Landscaping business sometime in the future and since I only can comprehend things with numbers could someone please tell me what are the possibilities, income-wise, for say a (3) man crew. I am looking for the net profit here. If I busted my A$$ all year long at the end of the year how much money would I be taking home. I am living in Modesto, CA. I'm sure it varies by region, etc. but I am just looking for a rough estimate here....something I can sink my teeth into. I would also be interested to find out how much of an initial investment it would take to get this business off of the ground. I have always dreamed of opening a small business but unfortunately I am not much of a risk taker and I want to make sure that I don't end up with my head in the sand. Any honest help here would be greatly appreciated.

[Phil Nilsson]

Here are some ballpark numbers ...

Sales Dollar $1.00
Less:
Labor ....... .39
Equipment .17
Overhead .15
Material .....10 .... maint & lawn care (not landscape install)
All other......04

Profit .........15

Labor and indirect costs represent the bulk of expense for most contractors and dwarf true overhead costs by comparison. The questions to answer about these costs can be reduced to what I call "time costs."

How much does time cost my company?
How much time will the job take?
What are my hourly or time profit goals?
What are my hourly direct costs?
What are my hourly indirect costs?
What is my overhead rate per hour?

To reduce all of this down to practical application ... if on average your billing produced rate per hour is let's say $35.00 and your average costs per hour are let's say $22.00 then take the spread and project your companies total annual potential production hours (hours per year per employee) at full production and this gives you a ballpark profit (before) owner's salary or draw.

How many production hours can you sell? and more importantly ... at what profit per hour? 10,000 hours sold at $35.00 gives you gross sales of $350,000 but what you find in this biz is many operating close to around $30.00 per hour produced once you factor in rain days, the off season etc. etc. so it's important to control and PROTECT that profit per hour by carefully managing TIME because if you don't profits take a major hit!

Phil

[Scott]

why would you be running a three man crew? seems like a waste to me unless you're doing very large jobs. Every three man crew I see out there is costing the owner $$$ because somebody is always standing around. Just yesterday I saw a three man crew at a gas station,, two guys sitting on the curb suckin down cokes,, one guy had a bp blower and was doing the whole lot by himself. And by the way they where dress, I think the owner was doin the work since he was the only one with a shirt.

You'll probably start out with residentials and a two man crew is more than enough. When you get to the point of needing a third, you should either let the current guy go on his own and you train a new guy or vice versa. Then as biz picks up again,, hire a 4th.

[Jsanch11]

Phil,

Thank you very much for the information!

Scott,

I was thinking of working alongside one guy and have the other (2) guys work together. Is this feasible or would I instead not have any time to work with the team...because of the office work needed? At least in the beginning I would prefer to work with the crew at ground level.

[Scott]

so you're actually talking about a four man crew; you and three others.
If you're just maintaining, there's generally no need for any more than two on an average residential yard.

If you're landscaping, doing irrigation or whatever, yeah I can see the need for more ppl but you'll need to learn to walk before you can run.

[Phil Nilsson]

It's hard to talk exact earnings and profits without mentioning "market share". The more savvy a biz person you are, the better your chances of getting a better than average share. It's like saying that in any horse race ... there can be only one top of the heap winner ... and one horse who finishes dead last. It's doubtful that you'll be first or last ... so do a drivearound and find out who the other "horses" are. You can tell alot, get clues from this and get a feel for what they "must" be earning in order to live an X, Y or Z lifetstyle.

Where will you fit into the income scenario and how well will you do? If you want to be successful at almost anything ... this works everytime ... "Do what others don't like to do" and you'll come out better than average nearly everytime. Example? no problem ... spend extra time on your homework and grades will likely improve. But ... how many do or will? See what I mean?

Market potential is a "thing" ... personal potential is a "thing" ... and level of ambition is a "big thing" but from my contacts and clients in this biz I have them that earn from a low of about $30,000 a year to those who earn over $500,000 a year (net) (net) back pocket money so ... why is this? Market opportunity ... what they bring to that market ... and how they bring it ... and how much they are willing to sacrifice in the process.

No matter how well you think you can do ... no matter who you are or what you offer ... MARKET potential is number one when figuring your sales and income levels. Case in point ... Home Depot is a huge success yet they realize that in any one market that market has only so many dollars to spend at Home Depot ... so Home Depot has hundreds of stores in hundreds of markets all of which add up to giant sales dollars. The same holds true for many of the big players in the Green Industry. Branch locations are "cool" since you ask for only a certain market share from each market and NOT going around thinking to yourself that you will dominate any single one of them.

Phil

[Rustic Goat]

Would suggest visiting every Green Industry forum you can find, read every thread & every post. That's going to take a while depending on how much time you can spend at the computer. There is a LOT of information on these forums, you can get a real industry related education, free.
There's a lot of BS too, so don't get burned out.
There are also many mfg online sights that are quite helpful.