blower problems

[cjm2783]

one of my new workers put regular gas in the blower and now it's not running as strong.

do any of you guys know of something i might do to fix it myself. i will get a new plug this weekend and filter.

thanks.
cjm

[highlander316]

depending on how long the gas was in there, I think you might have to tear the engine down. Maybe piston ring is shot? I saw diesel in a 2-stroke once, the piston was BLACK.

[TRANSMAN]

Curious????

one of my new workers put regular gas in the blower and now it's not running as strong.

do any of you guys know of something i might do to fix it myself. i will get a new plug this weekend and filter.

thanks.
cjm

Does the owners manual specifically state that the engine requires premium grade fuel ,as i see no reason the use of regular would affect engine power, or life????

Premium burns slower then regular, and regular burns faster then premium...

With a fix timed engine i see no reason that "high octane" slower burning fuel, would affect power....

The only reason that running regular would cause loss of engine power, or piston/ ring damage ,was if the engine was built with such a high compression ratio that the engine experienced sustained combustion knock, or ping, breaking internal engine parts...

This would require dissassembly, and replacement of major parts......

I find this scenario unlikely however, as i havent noticed this problem in small engines running with compression ratios of 9:1 and lower....

Most blower 2 cycles are 7:1 or lower ,and really only require regular grade fuel.....

Very confused......... ..TRANS..

[hardboiled]

I think that what he meant was his employee put straight gas in instead of oil/gas mix for a two stroke. Now that would cause problems.

[TRANSMAN]

Thanks H.B!!!!!! DOINK- DOINK!!!!

I think that what he meant was his employee put straight gas in instead of oil/gas mix for a two stroke. Now that would cause problems.

Hit me in the head with a hammer !!!!! I had that one comeing......

Over the past few years i saw so many people hung up on the thought that premium gas was a necessity, i just assumed he meant that the fello didnt use the magical premium raceing formula blend......

Didnt even dawn on me that he meant the gent actually ran the engine without any oil......

Usually the person describes that the employee ran it without oil , it seized, i freed it up , but now the power is low..... anyway,

That would indeed require the dissembling of the engine to check for piston , ring, and bore damage........

Usually the needle bearing on the big end of the conecting rod also falls apart after such a unfortunate accident.....

It will all depend on how long ,and at how high a speed the engine was run with no oil mix.....

I`ve actually tried this on old junkers and they will idle for an hour with straight gasoline......

Running at normal blower speed of 8000 rpm they will actually last a good 10 minuites before comeing to that instant screeching stop......

Sometimes even longer if there run with rich oil mixis like 25:1 and the oil pools on the bottom of the cases....

Ummmm, wonder how they realised that the process was going on and that this problem was happening?????

Might get lucky, and get by with a new piston ring and simple sanding of the cylinder bore and piston if scoured.....

Replaceing more damaged parts then this would probably be cost prohibitive and cost as much as just replaceing the entire unit......

BEST LUCK with whatever the decision , and sorry for misinterpreting the simple, but more tragic problem......

TRANS.

[hardboiled]

Well, it's not worth hitting you wiith a hammer for, as his wording could be taken either way. Both of your replies are helpful, whichever.
Interesting about your testing of them without oil. Did you use one type of oil only when you did that? I was wondering what the results would be on an engine run prior to the test with a premium oil, of synthetic leanings, compared to your run of the mill stuff. As far as four strokes go, synthetics are supposed to provide longer protection in the event of an overheating or oil loss.
I have a question for you Trans, on the subject of mix ratios, while we're at it. I have seen discussion of running leaner mix ratios and how that effects air fuel ratios via jetting. It was said that a leaner mix ratio (say 50:1 as opposed to 32:1) will make an engine run rich (air/fuel) because of the oil that is displaced by gas and presumebly that the gas mix is now thinner than if there were more oil. I think they are assuming that because the mix is a bit thinner it will flow through the jets at a higher volume and run richer. Along with the fact that there is a smidge more gas in the cylinder when there is less oil. I'm not sure if this is accurate or not. I can see that it would make a difference at the extremes but between 32:1-40:1 or 50:1-60:1 I think the danger of one persons thinking on that is he is mixing up the two versions of rich, i.e. oil/gas and air fuel. I got the idea he thought because he was running richer(air/fuel) he was protected by the extra fuel, just as he would be protected by extra oil. If he did not mean that, then is it correct to figure that you may need to tinker with jetting to get an engine (we'll stick with 2-stroke motorcycles) to run the same at different oil/gas ratios. It would seem like and endless conquest because as you lean out the air/fuel after thinning the oil mix, you have now also leaned out the oil mix further also.
I'm sorry my 'splaining all this is not so good. You may have to read it acouple times to get my point.
CJM, sorry to divert the attention from your question. I think you can rely soundly on Transman's answers, whichever was the case in regards to your blower. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a product you could add to your next batch of gas that would hone the cylinder, repair bearings and rings, etc.? I hope that the damage is not too extensive.

[TRANSMAN]

H.B hmmmm , thats a tall glass a water!!!!

Well, it's not worth hitting you wiith a hammer for, as his wording could be taken either way. Both of your replies are helpful, whichever.
Interesting about your testing of them without oil. Did you use one type of oil only when you did that? I was wondering what the results would be on an engine run prior to the test with a premium oil, of synthetic leanings, compared to your run of the mill stuff. As far as four strokes go, synthetics are supposed to provide longer protection in the event of an overheating or oil loss.

I have a question for you Trans, on the subject of mix ratios, while we're at it. I have seen discussion of running leaner mix ratios and how that effects air fuel ratios via jetting. It was said that a leaner mix ratio (say 50:1 as opposed to 32:1) will make an engine run rich (air/fuel) because of the oil that is displaced by gas and presumebly that the gas mix is now thinner than if there were more oil. I think they are assuming that because the mix is a bit thinner it will flow through the jets at a higher volume and run richer. Along with the fact that there is a smidge more gas in the cylinder when there is less oil. I'm not sure if this is accurate or not. I can see that it would make a difference at the extremes but between 32:1-40:1 or 50:1-60:1 I think the danger of one persons thinking on that is he is mixing up the two versions of rich, i.e. oil/gas and air fuel. I got the idea he thought because he was running richer(air/fuel) he was protected by the extra fuel, just as he would be protected by extra oil. If he did not mean that, then is it correct to figure that you may need to tinker with jetting to get an engine (we'll stick with 2-stroke motorcycles) to run the same at different oil/gas ratios. It would seem like and endless conquest because as you lean out the air/fuel after thinning the oil mix, you have now also leaned out the oil mix further also.

I'm sorry my 'splaining all this is not so good. You may have to read it acouple times to get my point.
CJM, sorry to divert the attention from your question. I think you can rely soundly on Transman's answers, whichever was the case in regards to your blower. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a product you could add to your next batch of gas that would hone the cylinder, repair bearings and rings, etc.? I hope that the damage is not too extensive.

Thats a tall glass a water to answer there H.B but i`ll try and stumble through as best i can....

As to question H.B #1

I didnt try useing differing brands of 2 stroke oil on my somewhat silly little tests H.B... I had a boatload of 2 cycle junk a lawn service friend gave me , actually paid me to haul away a few years back because his fathers large warehouse was completely filled with old machines ....

This stuff was the sum of the accumulation of about 25 years of garbage that had quit running on him, was replaced, but instead of disgarding the older junk, he and his dad just continued to store them.....This cycle repeated over and over for years with the new stuff becomeing the old ,and eventually his building was completely full and he needed someone to clear it out.....

I was the only personal friend who had a fork lift , trailer, and silly enough to enjoy wasteing my time so i took on the job of removeing this pile of old machinery.....Because i am somewhat of a junk collector myself i started sifting through the garbage while loading it up and seperateing it into piles of good junk and bad junk.....

The good junk ended going over to my shop ,and i ended up renting another bay because the majority of the junk was actually still good......His bussiness was thriveing enough that when somthing as simple as a starter cord simply broke instead of waiteing for someone to repair it, his father just went out and bought a new replacement.....I actually saved about 75 good weedwackers and 75 good blowers after all was said and done plus other cool equiptment.......

Nevertheless this gave me some toys to experiment with.... I felt the need to explain where this stuff came from because normally someone would ask why would any idiot purposely run somthing without oil just to watch it self destruct????????

Thats why.....

I believe the 2 stroke oil was just run of the mill quaker state stuff i had for all my other equiptment.... Non Synthetic.....

I should mention that although Amsoil synthetic claims to have a wonderfull guarantee a good friend had questionable luck with their oil in a Honda CR 250 cc motocross race bike.....

He had used Amsoil 2 cycle exclusively in his dirt bike for bombing around the trails , Not actually raceing for a few months ,and the bike had about 25 hours on it..... One day he decided to clear it out ,and take a quick blast down the road, and after getting in 5th gear and just hitting top rpm the engine came to a screeching hault, seized, locking the tire ,and that was that......I did actually see this and help push the bike back to the shop

And he was running the amsoil that the dealer down the street sold us on .

We did like the amsoil 4 cycle oil because we took a few car engines apart that were spotless inside with over 100,000 mi...anywho,

He/"we" got nowhere with Amsoil ,because they claimed it was his/our fault for running the bike wide open down the street, at sustained full throttle for which the engine was not designed,( ACCORDING TO AMSOIL)...

After a rebore, new piston and rings he/we tried the same thing with a differing oil at the same 50:1 mix and never had the engine come close to seizure.....He`s/we`s done this numerous times over and over without any problem, but decided not to retry with the amsoil....

I dont know if that means anything except that we lost all faith in Amsoil 2 stroke ,and was very surprised as we had used their products since the early 80`s.......

H.B #2

I think your correct in assumeing running a richer oil mix ratio would slightly lean the air fuel ratio due to the increase of the fuel mix viscosity....I believe the differance is negligable however and feel it is safer in any circumstances to run more oil then less......

Before the emmissions police program went into force the old opperator manuals always recommended running richer oil fuel mix ratios (MORE OIL) ,dureing the innitial break in period...... I still use this practice and have never had any problems......

If the new manual recommends useing a 50:1 mix "even during break" in i ignore their directions and run a 25:1 mix anyway.....I also ignore most of the recomendations to run the engine at full throttle to "warm up" as this seems like nothing but some emmissions related ploy, that will actually shorten engine life.

To me it seems stupid to run the engine at full throttle before the piston warms up and is opperateoing at the proper fit... Nothing like a wobbling , slapping cold piston banging around at 9000 rpm that sounds right to me.But thats what i see they recomend in the new manuals.


Anyway i would not worry that more oil would lean the mixture enough to cause problems or that useing less oil would help by increaseing the amount of fuel/oil mix is actually getting into the cylinder..I think by looking at the amount of smoke you`ll see more oil is going to equal more lube, and less oil is going to equal less lube no matter how you slice it.

On the other hand outside tempetures, barometric pressure, and altitude will all have a more measureable affect in the proper air fuel ratio and power output.....

Barometric Pressure: In theory the higher the better....Generally at sea level they equate it to 30" mercury.....

If the pressure drops to 29" it is the same as running the same engine at 1000 ft above sea level...

28" = 2000.
27" = 3000.
26" = 4000, etc, etc, so there are many factors all jumping in and screwing things up which are more important then changeing the mix from 32:1 to 50:1.

I`ve heard about but not actually seen that a 2 stroke engine desighned / tuned for high elevation "such as 6000 ft " and brought down to sea level have actually seized because the fuel mixture was to lean causeing the engine to overspeed plus overheat ..Sounds like somthing that is theory but i`ve been told that jetting for high elevation is much leaner because the air density is so much thinner requireing less fuel..

Then when brought down to sea level the engine acts like a normal sea level adjusted engine with a partially plugged jet which leans out and seizes, so who knows ?? but now you know why i even mentioned the whole barometer , tempeture ,altitude connection....

All these theories can get very intwined and confuseing, just think

Higher altitude normally is much colder air.
Colder = denser air, but not when it comes to altitude because the higher you go the less dence the air is.

Put a turbo on the high altitude engine to compress the air but then you heat the air by compressing it and it becomes less dence anyway..

It still works but not as good so you have to cool the heated compressed air with a aftercooler to get full advantage.

I could go on and on with all this boreing nonsence H.B but i`m sure were off topic now, your even sorry you asked , plus i`m close to the 12000 character limit and must shut up.

H.B#3 I had to go look back at what your 3rd question was again because now i`m confuseing myself , and dout CJM will get anything helpfull out of my post....Its good practice which i desperately need to clean up my horrible typeing skills though so its not a total loss for me.

I am guessing that CJM probably still had some of the orriginal gas oil mix in the machine when his man put the plain non mixed gas in the unit....

Otherwise i think it would have completely seized.. It probably got run on about a 500 - 600:1 mix ratio if there was a little gas oil mix in the tank ,and then filled up with plain fuel....

If so ,and the engine never actually seized, he may get lucky and the ring just quickly wore out without digging in to the cylinder wall.

If this was the situation a new ring may get him by with good results or just keep running and useing it untill it dies... The original ring may also just have got hot , swelled enough to stick in its groove and be stuck or collapsed....

Maybe he could squirt some marvil oil, wd 40 in the plug hole then run a 16:1 mix and the ring will pop free produceing a miricle

OHHH WELL , good luck CJM and get those gas cans marked with JUMBO LETTERS saying OIL MIX on the proper jugs so you dont have this problem again....

If you really got a bunch of idiots working for you i would just put a few ounces of oil in every jug say like a mix of 100:1 and run it in everything...

I put oil mix in my 4 cycles all the time and never had a problem... Just make believe your running marvil mystery oil in for upper end lubrication and dont tell the environuts.....

YAC-YAC........ TRANS.

[rover1]

The good news is that its running. Just empty the gas and fill it up with the correct fuel/oil ratio. Burn completely through this tank and see if that improves the running.