Kohler Warranty Warning!

[GREENTHUM]

I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH KOHLER NOT HONORING THIER WARRANTY. I HAVE AN EXMARK METRO THAT IS ONE YEAR OLD AND THE CAMSHAFT BROKE. THE KOHLER REP SAID IT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD BEEN RUN LOW ON OIL. I ALWAYS KEEP AN EYE ON THE OIL,, HAVE BEEN USING COMMERCIAL MOWERS FOR 13 YEARS AND BELIEVE ME,, I KNOW TO CHECK THE OIL. FROM NOW ON IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE KAWASAKI FOR ME.
BY THE WAY, I AM NEW TO THIS FORUM, BUT HAVE READ MANY OF THE POSTINGS, GLAD TO KNOW THERE'S A PLACE I CAN LEARN FROM OTHERS.
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES!

[Scaper-S2k]

I had the same thing happen to a 12.5hp Kaw. Dealer said the same thing you were told. I explained to him we always check oil, and it was not low when the mower shut down.

I have other mowers as backups, so I just left it sit at the dealers until their rep came (over a month). I argued for quite some time about how new the engine was, and how it had oil in it. The Rep finally said to tear it down and find the real problem. It had been a slight flaw in the motor. They paid for a new one.

Your Rep is trying to get out of a new engine. See, that's his first line of defense "Low Oil". Well, if 2 out of 4 customers agree, then he saves money while they pay for their own engine. The 3rd and 4th guys will still complain. Then he'll make another excuse.........the 3rd guy will give up and pay for his motor, Rep saves another $600. You should be the 4th guy that doesn't give up. Keep complaining, get a new engine.

[br549oicu8]

Kohler Problem--Voice UP!!

Kohler has a very large showing at the International Lawn Equipment in Louisville. If they don't back it up, tell them you are more than happy to talk it over with everyone at the trade show while you are wondering around their huge display, which by the way, costs Kohler a ton of money. Raise a little hell as they say. I did this woth a Kubota problem last year and was amazed at what they did. Amazed!!!!!!
Good luck and stand up for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buddy

[GrassMaster]

It wasn't always that hard to do? Warning Mile Longer!

Hello Everybody:

I suggest that when you have a Major Engine Failure & You think it's a Warranty-able Item and you are...

Getting no where with the Dealer, get on the Phone & Call the Engine or Mower Manufacture, try to talk to someone in the Warranty Department. Try Customer Service as a Alternative. (Last Resort)

10 Years ago at the Kohlar Service Up-Date Schools they encourage Dealers to do Engine Warranties because at that time only 10% of the Warranty Revenue that was sat aside was actually being used. Boy have things changed!

The Problem now is over the Years it has been abused to no end for all OEM's & Warranties are getting harder & harder to get approved for the Dealer.

It isn't an Easy Task for the Dealer & the Dealer doesn't find out sometimes until up to 3 months later if the OEM is going to pay them for the Warranty Repair.

A dealer can't just say, Yeah I'll Warranty that. If it was that Easy, all OEM's would be out of Business by now! Consumers & Dealers alike are now running Warranties into the Ground...

Prices have not went up much in the Past 10 to 15 years on Power Equipment, because the Consumer & Mower Manufacture are demanding Lower Prices on Engines. But the Same thing is Happening with the Mower Manufactures T00!

Please remember that in Most all cases the Engine is Manufactured by one company & the Engine is Manufactured by another.

Yes, I know Honda builds all their Mowers & Engines, also Toro builds some of their Engines T00!

But Demands for Lower Priced Equipment is forced the OEM's of Engines & Mowers to Build & Sell at Lower Prices!

Example:
Back in February of 1992 you could purchase a 5HP Snapper, Self Propelled, Bagger Homeowner mower with a B&S Engine for $499.00 Today (11 Years Later) it's a...

6.75 Overhead Valve B&S Snapper, Self Propelled Bagger for $549.99 so what has happened here? In 11 years you get 1.75 more Hp for the same mower for $50 more, but how much has their cost of doing business went up since then?

Trucks alone has about doubled. In 1984 a Loaded 84 Silverado was less than $11,000 how much are they now? What $25,000 or more & the Truck Manufactures are Struggling, if this happened to Outdoor Power Equipment (Doubled their Price) 0ver 50% on the Lawn Service Businesses would not Exist & your Service Fees would have to be much higher! Think about it?

The Same exact thing that has Happened to the Lawn Service Business Owners over the Years. They have been forced to Reduce the Prices to stay in a Competitive Market.

Back in the Mid 80's I was mowing, bagging, Trimming with Trimmer, Edging & Blowing off 10,000 sq.ft lawns in South Georgia for between $45 to $55 a Pop. What are you getting now? See what I mean? In late 80's I would not even unload my Equipment for less than $35, What about now?

I've had Numerous Same Warranty Items on Mowers that always got warrantied & then one day I get notice that it's not covered by the Manufacture anymore? What happens to those warranties that I've been waiting on to get paid that I performed months ago, well I can just Say forget it, because I will not get paid for them... Why didn't they tell me in advance?

What do you think would happen If I said to the Customer, hey that warranty I did 2 1/2 months ago on your mower is not covered by the Manufactures Warranty? I would not get paid by the customer, they would laugh at me, Hang up the Phone on me & I would be lost that customer for life, So I am Forced to eat it & It Taste Bad, I mean Real Bad!

You will see a Day in the Near future that When you have a warranty-able repair that it will sit at the Dealer until he gets a check from the Manufacture, unless things change for the Dealer!

First place it's a very unprofitable thing to do warranty work to start with, because the Manufacture will not get paid near what the Consumer pays for the same job!

If you've been cutting a lawn for $45 a Pop, What would you say if the Customer says, you are going to cut this lawn Today for $25 this Time & I will pay you for it in the next 30 to 90 days (Basically when I Feel Like it) & I might not pay you at all? How many of them jobs are you going to do with a smile on your face? LOL, Probably not one! The Dealer does it Quite Often Weekly!

I know where you are coming from on this Warranty, I used to have a Lawn Service Business, but I'm now a Dealer & I've regretted it for a Long Time!

But I do Try to take care of My Commercial Cutters where I can. I do Numerous on the Spot repairs for the Commercial Cutters, that's with 100 to 250 Homeowners waiting on their Mowers to be repaired T00!

If that Engine was Full of oil & the Camshaft Broke, it Should be warrantied ASAP. If that Engine was ran low of oil, The Engine will tell you when it's taken apart. So there should be no Question about that. Engines do not Lie when they are torn apart, they record what Happens to them as far as failure goes!

So instead of waiting on the Rep or the Dealer, I would get on the Phone & contact the Manufacture & Try to talk to someone in the Warranties Department...

And if you want it done Right & Quick, Tell them what is going on in a Business Like Professional Manner & Explain your situation...

If you want to get nowhere with it just be a Smartass & See how far you get. Because the Manufactures get numerous Smartass calls by the Hour & You will get nowhere! They are People T00, Just Like US!

Lawn Service Businesses are Growing Out of Control Yearly, but Outdoor Equipment Dealers are Reducing in numbers Yearly! There's over 50% Less Dealers in the US than there was in 1990, so Figure that one.

I know what you are going through & it's not nice but look at the other guys T00! You might consider looking for another dealer when this is over!

Every once in a while, I'll do a Warranty like that for someone if they Purchased it from another dealer, but it's getting few & far between, because Loyalty is based on on the Almighty Dollar Bill now, it used to be based on the Quality & Service of the Dealer.

I always got what I paid for, I went first Class & I never asked for a Discount or Tried to Talk my Dealer Down on Price! I was Treated like Gold! In over a $100,000 worth of Equipment Purchases, I purchased I think I had 2 Warranties done, because if it's a Small thing, I would Pay because I didn't have the Luxury of Waiting on Others! My Time is Money & that's what I sell is my Time!

This is no Lie here, I purchased an $8,500 Mower & about 1 weeks later The Hydro Transmission Case Busted, Fluid ran out everywhere on the lawn, We had hit a hole in the front yard, we had been cutting that yard for over a year with the same exact type of mower. I took it to the dealer & he started giving me the run around. Telling me it would take a couple of weeks to repair, no warranty....

I told him we had hit the Hole at least 20 or 30 times & no Problem, He still said it wasn't warrant-able. I walked up Front & told them to get me another one ready. I was Writing the Check & the Shop Manager came up & said Hold on.

The guy that serviced it accidentally over inflated the Tires, on the Yazoo model I had if you over inflated the tires & hit a hole just right it will crack the transmission casing.

I Knew this & had my other 2 brought up there & they check them, all the rear tires had 14 lbs ea. & Front was 24 lbs ea. They replaced the Transmission in less than 4 hours. It was warrantied, but it was hell getting it done!

I wish things were different for all, but as long as Low Prices are Demanded & Met, and Loyalty bypassed by the All Mighty Dollar, It will Continue to Get Worse!

I had a customer come in Yesterday, His Mower hasn't ran in a Year, He Told us all it needed was a Plug, We asked him if he wanted us to fix it, he said Yeah put a Pug in it, because that's all it needs. We did it on the Spot.

We charged him $2.95 Plus tax & 7.50 Labor, that's our Shop Minimum, He took it home it wouldn't crank. He called up & started cussing the Mechanic, then he handed the Phone to my Wife called her a B****, Then She handed the Phone to me & did the same thing, I told him calmly that we did what he told us too, That we asked him if he wanted it fixed? He said put a Plug in it, We did as Instructed. I told him We would deduct his Fee & fix it.

He said he would never do business with us again, 20 minutes later his neighbor Took his mower waiting for Repair because of what the other guy said (All Lies). What did we do Wrong.

I went to the Parking lot & told (Mr. Spark Plug) to Tell everybody he Knows about Us & we do not want him, his Family, Friends or Kin Folks on my Property. They can take their Wall Mart, K-mart, Sears Attitude somewhere else. Because we can't afford him!

BTW: I told him that My Wife said he was a B**** T00! I'm a Plump 48 & he was about 30, He ran over to the Next Businesses Parking Lot! I will not ever take Customer abuse! It's a everyday thing in the New Age we are Living in.

If I had a Dollar for every time I was Told that there was really nothing wrong with it, I would be living on an Island Somewhere.
I'm now averaging over 5 calls a day from People wanting me to tell them how to fix it over the phone, because they do not want to pay to have it fixed. 50% of them get mad & Hang up on me! The Good Ole Days are Gone forever! How do I tell people how to fix a Pull rope or Rebuild a Carb on the Phone & they do not know where the air cleaner is? I bet they don't call the Air Conditioner Shop & ask how to fix it?

If you think you have problems with the 100, 200 or so a year customers you have, Trade Places with me, mine is closer to 8,000 to 10,000 a year! It's a Nightmare at it's Best!

Times are hard for all, just because I own a Business doesn't mean I'm Filthy Rich?

I just saved myself over $200, Thank You Everybody I Feel Better Now. I need the Money worse than a Shrink does!

[Scaper-S2k]

Wow!

Hands down...........the longest post by GrassMaster.......ever.

Possibly, yes possibly, the longest post by anyone on any green industry message board.

He only averages 27 words per minute while typing (on a good day)...........so that last post must have taken over an hour?

GrassMaster, good job...........gooooooood job.





P.S. You should check your e-mail sometime! Yeh, like about a week ago!

Or are you still typing up a response?

[Scott]

geezzzz,

man you weren't kiddin about a mile longer,, a mile longer than your longest post ever!!!

1893 words
7907 characters
96 sentences
19.7 words per sentence
averaged 4 characters per word


well we know now what gets your goat,,, warranty work!!!

I'm gonna have to come back and read the last 1/2 of this one,, I only take a 30 min lunch break.

[Scaper-S2k]

I would have liked to see his post average 5-6 characters per word!




Hint for GrassMaster: Next time, use the word 'Warranty' much more to increase you average characters per word!

[GrassMaster]

Hello Most Valued Forum Members & Bestest Buddies:

Thank You for your Kind Words & for taking the time to Read my post during your lunch Breaks! I was in Tears typing most of the Reply & I can tell you felt my pain! LOL, LOL & LOL

Erich, You got Mail, Please Don't let nobody else read it?

Mr. Scott I noticed a while back you said you liked the "Buddy Ignor List" could you please send me an E-mail & Explain to Me how to use this function, It appears I need it real bad!

I also want to give a "BIG THANK YOU VERY MUCH" to 3 forum members that Reported my Post to the Moderator... Now I'm in Trouble!

Who was the 3rd Amigo that Reported me?

[TRANSMAN]

Camshaft woes

Hi, brand new member with this group. I must reply to the gentleman concerning his kohler cam breaking. I would definately push to have that repaired under warenty free of charge as i am pretty sure this is a design flaw in your kohler. I used to have a side lawn service bussiness and being a mechanic did all my own repairs and pulled apart many engines. Many of the large kohlers and also Kawasaki have made a move to make there cams out of a composite material which basically hard plastic. I think they did so trying to reduce noise levels but probably saved 1db as a tradeoff for dureability. Kinda like the problems V8 automotive engines had in the 70-80s with the timeing gears that were nylon and jumped after peeling off at 40,000 miles.They were easily fixed by realligning the cam and crank and installing a replacement top gear that was steel.Problem with the Kohler,Kawasaki, and the new honda GC overhead cam engines is the whole camshaft is plastic. Results are they often round a lobe off or the cams break in half before 250 hrs.Camshafts are the highest loaded part in the engine and need to be metal. Some end up with the valves hitting the piston and causeing more problems bent valves etc.Otherwis there great engines but i wouldnt buy anything with a composite cam. I`m not sure if they resolved this problem yet but i would ask if they have upgraded to steel on the brand new kohler and offer a steel replacement for the repair. I recently saw a honda GC where the oil changed to silver collored gunk and i advised the owner to return his pressure washer one week old with 5 hours use and get a GX commercial powered unit that obviously has steel as honda knows a composite cam engine wouldnt hold up to commercial use. I would prefer a cheap briggs with steel cam than anything with plastic.Be carefull though as some small briggs also come with plastic. The I/C large Inteks and Vanguards are great. The Vanguards are excellant from what i`ve seen and i have a few old I/C generators and air compressors with over 6000 hrs on them.I was partners in a roofing bussiness and they were run 8hrs a day 5-6 days a week.Granted they are noisy but i changed the oil every 50 hrs and always used funnels that were clean so no grit woud enter and they went forever.Well my final summation is to stay away from the kohler and Kawasaki because those cams dont seem to last.Maybe the new ones have been upgraded but everyone ive seen had composite so i would definately ask Before makeing a new purchase.Dont let them blame you with the low oil bull and make them repair or replace. Good luck, K.D

[GREENTHUM]

THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE, BUT STILL NO LUCK GETTING ANYTHING OUT OF KOHLER. THEY TOLD ME IF I WANTED TO DISPUTE THIER DECISSION I HAD TO SEND THE ENGINE TO WISCONSIN. AT LEAST $70 MY COST. I GUESS THEY FIGURE NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO THE TROUBLE AND EXPENSE. I WENT AHEAD AND ORDERED A NEW KOHLER FROM THE SMALL ENGINE WAREHOUSE, WHICH HAS GREAT PRICES. FOUND THEM ONLINE AND A FRIEND IN THE REPAIR BUSINESS SAID HE HAD ORDERED FROM THEM SO I KNEW THEY WERE FOR REAL. KINDA SCARY ORDERING OFF THE INTERNET SOMETIMES.

[riches139]

Richard; Thank you for allowing Kohler engines to answer your questions.
The command twin cylinder engines to not have a composite camshaft. The
Camshaft and gear are cast and then we induction harden the cam lobes.
I hope this information is helpful.
-----Original Message-----
From: riches139@att.net [mailto:riches139@att.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 7:59 AM
Subject: Kohler Engine Feedback - Service Question

I too was concerned after reading your dilema. Note this is for the twin cylinder horizontals, but I would think the verticals would be the same.

[GREENTHUM]

i guess i should clarify,, my engine is a 13 hp single cylinder. in the past i have had good service out of kohler engines, i had another mower with 900 hours on the engine and still ran like a sewing machine. would the composite material be in the 13 hp? also, do you work for kohler?

[Chuck Sinclair]

GrassMaster,

Never answers e-mails i send him stuff all the time and nothing nada.

[GrassMaster]

Hello Chuck:

If I didn't reply to one of your E-mails, I apologize?
Please Re-Send it & I might Answer it this time!

[Chuck Sinclair]

GM

You are assumming i remember what is was but at my age that's not the case LOL!!!