armed robbery sucks

[lawn hopper]

This thread has caused me some concern because I feel vulnerable to robbery or burglary. Brainstormed some ideas for improving my situation with some door reinforcements and a handgun.

The gun is a Kel Tec P 3AT and worth a look for anyone who would feel safer strapped. Anyone own one?

[mariner]

What kind of neighborhood were you in? Maybe you need to limit your service area a little more. I don't accept any business in any neighborhood where what happened to you is possible.

[Lmtlawncare]

hey people i just wanted to let u know it doesnt matter murder is murder, i work in a state prison and i know men who were just protecting their family, lil kids and wife and property from a#$holes (who are to lazy to get a job and live off welfare and sell drugs to kids on the playground) who still got to victimize others to live their lives. anyhow one man shot and killed a robber inside his house, the thief's family brought a civil suit and won not to mention the man is doing time for murder 3rd degree i think but i know murder. just for protecting himself and family. i know ill die to protect my family and i will still severely hurt anyone who tries to hurt them. i believe in an eye for an eye. u want to play like a big dog be prepared when u find that bigger dog who bites back harder.

[Woody]

A socialistic state like Pennsylvania may call it murder. Here in Ohio, the ground rules are quite firm. The guy must have had a dud lawyer, and not called any professional witnesses into the courtroom. It has been proven that someone 10 feet away with a knife can inflict a fatal wound faster than some people can pull the trigger.

For more on the subject, I HIGHLY recommend the book "The Truth About Self Protection", by Massad Ayoob.

Perosnally, I'll take my chances in court.

Oh, and it is NOT murder. MURDER, by definition, is "The UNLAWFUL killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice". Stopping someone from murdering YOU is not murder. It is justifiable under the law.

Mariner: You wrote..... "I don't accept any business in any neighborhood where what happened to you is possible." While I agree with your concept, please realize that what happened to him is POSSIBLE anywhere anywhere on the planet. I do agree that one should focus on upscale neighborhoods where such an occurance is more unlikely.

Always remeber this: Ultimately, YOUR safety is YOUR responsibility, no one elses. No matter if it is taking the guard off a trimmer, or deciding to pack a pistol. It is all up to you.

Woody

[Lmtlawncare]

yes this states laws suck it may be justifiable in our eyes but i cant understand how some people on a jury can convict a man in any state for protection of his family in his home or anywhere for the matter. this guy stopped it from happening from someone else. and it dont matter how good your lawyer is anyone can find a technicality to get anyone off its just that lil catch phrase, beyond a reasonable doubt that gets the jury to convict u

[backsmackwristcrack]

area of offense is

kinda moot...it was a a middle to low income area neatly kept but no bimmers ..but this is happening all over miami El Portal Miami shores, 300,000
to 5.5 million dollar homes. Landscaers are getting nailed. Most of my accounts are in south beach where if this happened the robbers would have to kill you because if you called the cops they'd have all points of entry to the island locked down in an instant.

As for hunting my assailant down well hell yeah but kill him nope uh uh no way... make him look funny, a couple of arm bars or wrist locks dislocate a shoulder perhaps spend a minute or two activating various pressure points and long conversation away from the nine millimeter as we drive to the cops...better than a free sunday brunch bub.
the police are being issued new tazers just so they stop killing people at well, a kinda consistent rate really. (ofcourse last month some kid blasted one of our local cops with an AK..but hey heres a tazer ..make us look good now...)What really seems out of whack is that the family structure is destroyed. the base is gone and its just falls apart...im going down the road today with a car next to me, gangbanging mid 70's job 24 inch rims candy paint. and hey cool car..rap music BOOMING, ok impoite but to each his own..lyrics.."OWNING THE WORLD WITH A GUN IN MY HAND GRAB A HO AND MAKE MY STAND..." not cool..soo uncool that it is a cancer to the soul and mind I believe brain washing to some I believe,, reinforcing a manufactured ideal to a brain still in chemical development..WTF people...how is it we are going so backwards....shoot I listened to a lot of music.. I really cant recall Greg Alman singing that..any how Ive managed to go off on a tangent again,, God bless ADD if thats what it is..lol ..good night. Health and happiness, bad turn to good....

[Ric]

backsmackwristcrack

My son lives in the 700 block of Collin Ave. Your post about being robbed at gun point for Lawn mowing equipment really bugs me. I know you are telling the truth but It is kind of unbelievable that strong arm robbery for Mowing equipment is happening. Now I am not knocking your Equipment, BUT how much money on the black market could they get of it???? Not Much compared to the replacement cost.

One of my customer is a JUST retired Miami Police Captain. He has lived in my town 150 miles away for the last 10 years and had an apartment in Miami. He keeps his family out of Miami and commuted. Maybe this should tell you something about Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties. (BTW I will disscuss this post with him) While South Beach is the "Happening Place" now, it's history in the 60's and 70's was a slum. I am not sure if the area is still called "Little Havana" but at one time you didn't go there after dark. Today it is the Night life haven. Topless sunbathing by T backed Super Models and gun toting criminals are now common place in South Beach I guess.

[edger]

Backsmack,
Sorry to hear this man. Hope the day got better after that happened?

One sided stories are the only stories in this kind of incident. Less paper work and less time in the court house.

I don't keep my keys on me anyways. They get locked in my toolbox on the truck. So in order for me to give someone my keys they would have to follow me out front and let me open my toolbox. Thus we all can guess what would happen next.

Yes NC does allow concealed weapons also. I've taken the class and just haven't picked up a cap gun yet. But the good old Sig P245 is right there.

[RRS]

Here's a good gun site.

https://www.remtek.com/arms

[LawnDog]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune, expense, fear and anger at being victimized and all that. Hope they catch the bastard or better yet I hope the next guy he gets is a faster draw. After the fact, you are better off going on recon and hanging back, not confronting the dude. If he's a gang banger you never know when one of his fellow dirtbags is lurking and packing.

Try shopping swap meets, thrifty ads, yard sales, pawn shops (I know that one is tough) or "going out of business" sales or auctions in the newspaper, even e-Bay. These are places thieves can unload equipment to bargain shoppers who don't realize they are buying stolen property. You may stumble on to something...but don't act in haste. Armed robbery could be good for 10 years in the can for this dude where he may learn how tough he is not, and you may be directly responsible for breaking up a whole criminal ring and not just busting some asshole's head up, tempting as it may be. Also, keep record of all of your serial numbers for power equipment (Excel spreadsheets are great for this and maintenance logs). Pawn shops are required by law to record serial numbers of merchandise they receive in to a national database of stolen property. (Obviously this doesn't stop some from selling loot out the back door before logging it).

My wife and I had the chance to take a "Citizen's Police Academy" here in Salt Lake County, Utah. It was one night a week (3 hrs) for 10 weeks. Some of it was obviously PR, but a lot of it was really helpful. We got to use batons on the Sgt, use the firearms training simulator (like a video game with guns almost real), see a lot of crime scene photos and video, shoot on the range with police issue .40 Glocks, and a lot of class time.

The point is that while it was fun, it was serious. Most importantly, actual police taught the class in matters of the law when it comes to defense. In the great Red state of Utah, if it's a clean shot for a cop, it's clean for anyone. If you are not on the right side of the law when you take action, you are on the wrong side. You can't show up in court and say "My bad..."

The way the police put it to our class was that if someone was threatening you (or anyone, even in public) or a crime was in progress, you were permitted by law to use whatever force is necessary to stop them. The devil's in the details and you MUST watch what you say and how you say it afterwords.

For example, if some crackhead is walking down the street with a shotgun in a neighborhood, you can legally shoot him. Especially if there are kids and other unarmed folks around when he's doing it. You try to hold him at gun point to get him to disarm and he won't...you don't know what the crazy bastard is apt to pull. But any witnesses better corroborate your story and the threat or you will go to prison for murder. (Can't be some dude with a super soaker obviously goofing around, etc.)

Likeiwse, if some degenerate is breaking in to your home, you can kill him on the WAY IN legally. If he's trying to kick your door in you can put four holes in him on your lawn. You don't know what his intent is and you are afraid for your life and the lives of your family. If you come home and he's walking out the back door with your television, don't shoot. Can't use deadly force for a property crime. Now if you try to tell him to stop and he goes for a gun or knife (or MAKES like he's going for a weapon) then you are free to kill. You can use non-lethal force to stop property crime (i.e. kick the **** out of someone you catch stealing) until the situation is neutralized or THEY attempt to escalate the situation to a potentially deadly level. Make sense? I think so. A human life is worth more than car stereo or tv. Once the perp acts like he is willing to kill for that, even if he's bluffing, you are not a mind reader and he is a dead man.

Many areas have community policing programs that offer these type of classes. Check out your area and take one if they do. It's usually free and we all pay too much in taxes not to take advantage of it. You will leave absolutely certain of your rights. Part of the problem nowadays is the criminals know their rights better than we know ours. They don't want to die over $20 but they'll dare you to shoot so you'll go to prison.

Obviously, every state is different, especially with how many are being run by commie pinko bedwetters, you owe it to yourself and your family to find out the real deal in yours. If that crap is going on where you live and your state has concealed carry laws, get one. Personally I think your permit is printed plainly in the second amendment of the Consititution. If you want to prevent our country from being overrun by the scum of humanity then it is up to all honest working people to stop it by force and it starts in your own neighborhood. But knowing your rights, and when and how to act is not the same as THINKING you know. I learned this the hard way and almost got a 6 month vacation from my wife and kids, but I learn I did, and I won't make the same mistake twice.

[RRS]

Here is my personal favorite home defense weapon. His name is Porter. I have no doubt what-so-ever that this dog would chew his own paw off to defend me.

Then, if you were to somehow make it past him. I'd have long been ready with the single best, and most inexpensive home defense weapon there is...a $199 Wal-Mart special Mossburg 12-gauge. With buckshot, I can aim down the hallway blindfolded and not miss.

[RRS]

Here's another of Porter. Also a good pic of my office for the office contest.

[RRS]

What kind of parent would I be if I didn't show the girl too. Here's my female Lab. BTW, the Sheppard is 2 years old, and the Lab is 4.

[Woody]

RRS:

The myths surrounding a shotgun are many. The average gunfight distance is a mere 7 yards (21 feet), and indoors, it is even closer than that. I HIGHLY suggest you measure the length of your hallway, take your shotgun and choice of defense ammo (buckshot) out somewhere, MEASURE and then set up a cardboard target at that EXACT range. Now, fire a shot into the cardboard (of course, being careful enough to KNOW your backstop, and what is behind it). Now..... Look at HOW SMALL that SINGLE hole is. Yes, that SINGLE hole that all that buckshot just went through. At the range a typical indoor gunfight occurs at (5-10 feet), you will notice that the hole in no larger than an inch or 2 in diameter, even with no choke on the barrel (improved cylinder bore). Oh, and when you measure..... Say the hallway is 10 feet long. By the time you are standing in the hallway, pointing the gun downrange, you have taken about 3 feet OFF that distance (the muzzle end is now 7 feet from the target). Duplicate this out in the field where you conduct your testing, and you will see that the "pattern" from buckshot is indeed VERY small at that range.

Nothing against a shotgun, for sure. If I had my druthers, it is the weapon of choice for medium range combat. While the pistol has advantages at close range (quicker pointing, shorter, thus offering less mechanical leverage to an adversary trying to disarm you, etc.), the shotgun posses real stopping power, especially a 12 gauge using slugs (I love those Activ slugs, but can't seem to find them anymore, they were made in West Virginia, and offered a full wadcuttter profile with a huge hollowpoint).

Do you see my point? Many people THINK they can just point in the general direction of the target with a shotgun, and somehow they just magically will not miss. THAT IS A FALLACY! Like I said, I like a shotgun for medium range combat purposes, but I really would like to dispell the myths out there, and replace them with the reality of what happens. THis way the good-guys are better informed, and make good decisions when it comes to defending themselves.

Woody

[Lawnsbydesign]

you people need to learn to get out of the hood. This things would not happen to you if you didnt work in the hood.