getting undercut

[shack1]

Well hello everyone! Just wanted to (talk, vent, ect..) I've been hard at it bidding and thinking I'm bidding pretty good but have been getting beat left and right. I just don't know anymore. Yesterday I bid a scalp job, a real thick job, not been scalp in years, big yard. I put a bid in for 250.00 dollars. Called the client back today and he said found someone to do it for 40.00!!!!!!!! I just can't belive it, undercutting like this has happened time and time again. 30.00 dollar yards are getting done for 15.00 and less. This keeps up and I'll have to give it up. I've been doing this for 15 years and its the worse time I've ever seen. More new startups than I can count running around town with 50.000 dollars worth of equipment ( turck and mowers ect..) Looks like people took their 401k and decided to be lawn barrens and are cutting the price in this area to the marrow. Luckly I have a handful of good paying loyal accounts that want me to keep on keeping on, but its hard. Not that I'm one to complain about hard work, I've worked my $%$%$% to the bone over the years -----------------ect.......I'm rambeling better get off and go do some maintenance, any suggestions/thoughts its nice to hear other peoples thoughts. Have nice evening.

[bmclouse]

Same in this area. The scag dealer was telling me people have been buying up everything left and right. He knew of 15 new startups this year. And i was at Home Depot and saw a very small trailer that had a lawn tractor, a push mower and a trimmer on it. The sign on it said "Be your own Boss Start a Lawn Service today" the total on the deal was like $3500. I saw the Manager, an old high school friend of mine, and he said they were selling like crazy.

My guess is that most will not make it through the season. I picked up 3 accounts last year because a guy had quit half way through the season.

[ohreallythanks]

yoo...if you're here complaining about losing a 250 job....i'd say you've been doing all the work in your business ...instead of growing your business.......you'd prob have to lower your prices to suite your clientele, or raise your expectation and find clientele that meet them

[MAD MOWERS]

As a lot of the industries across the country lay off, shut down and cut back production or move production to off shore facilities, we will see more and more new start up's!
Thank N.A.F.T.A. and other great programs for this. The American worker is not highly prized by most companys any more, we cost too much to employ! If you had a good paying job and lost it, it is very hard to find another! So if you lose a account on your customer list it still effects your bottom line as least until replaced no matter how big you are!

[ohreallythanks]

did "the man" get you too mad mowers? hey..u lose some u win some....but God's let you and I live another day to take another swing at it....press on my friend....maybe change your name from mad mowers to happy mowers

[PTLlandscapingIL]

He's right, Keep pushing on the strong will win. These"lowballers' Always get caught up.the true landscapers are the one who enjoy twhat they do put there heart into it.dotn give up in the begining there will be say 25 Lcos about 15 are legit and by the end 10 of the illegals get caught up and 7 out of thoose 15 have stayed strong...keep it real i mean dont lowball, word of mouth and honesty and hard work STILL go a long way

[mariner]

The Home Depot deal doesn't mention that you need more than that little setup to be legal and make it long term. Anyone suckered into that deal is a just that. A sucker!

You should take a picture of that at Home Depot and post it. I'd love to see that and get a good laugh.

[Southerngreen]

The reason everone is cuttin for such low prices is beacuse people need bussniess its better to cut 50 yards at 15 bucks a peice than 4 yards at 50 dollars. People want good work at the cheapest price they can get, you cant go to bid when u need a yard and give them a outragous price and expect to get it

[highlander316]

The reason everone is cuttin for such low prices is beacuse people need bussniess its better to cut 50 yards at 15 bucks a peice than 4 yards at 50 dollars. People want good work at the cheapest price they can get, you cant go to bid when u need a yard and give them a outragous price and expect to get it

i disagree. You'll work your ass off to cut 50 yards at 15 bucks, depending on the size. Most people starting out think in terms of 'how many lawns I can do'. They do not think in terms of quality. They are like, I'm going to start off cutting 20 lawns. Yeah that's a good start, but at what price? These people don't know they're costs and bid it low, at your example of $15. They then struggle to make any money, and they ask me, how do you make so much when I cut more lawns than you? Quality of the accounts at my price. If you have your price and do excellent work, the accounts will come. I'm moving out of the older neighborhoods this year, I'm getting into the high quality homes where the work is needed and the people have the money for quality and I do not have to work as insanely fast as possible doing ****ty work to make decent money at a lower price.

I saw an ad last year in my neighborhood, 'all lawns $20.' Gimme a break, you either have such a low overhead that you can make some money, or they have no clue what they are doing. These kind of people will be out of business with a year or two. It is better to have 30 quality accounts at say $35-45 a pop than 50-60 at $15 in my opinion. The quality accounts are the ones you can upsell more work too.

Think about it, if your cutting someone's lawn at $15, how are you going to sell other work? Your not going to be able to get ~$50 at least per yard per mulch, the people will think you are too high then. The people who want the cheapest, cheapest price are the ones that are going to be a PITA imo. They will nit pick about everything. It's all about quality in the numbers.

Yea there's always going to be the lowballing illegals around, but they don't last. And if they do [RING, RING] "Hello, IRS?"

[chriscampbell]

Have any of you done that, when you know that one of your competion is not licensed call them in on it? make a phone call to your local IRS office? To knock them out of the picture....

[PTLlandscapingIL]

I agree with Highlander,These lowballers do put out ad's like that all lawns $20 but half way through the year they cant make it anymore,dump cost gop up.gas prices i know last year my machines were costing me about $10 a day each machine do the math.Quality before quionty

[jrservices]

The reason everone is cuttin for such low prices is beacuse people need bussniess its better to cut 50 yards at 15 bucks a peice than 4 yards at 50 dollars. People want good work at the cheapest price they can get, you cant go to bid when u need a yard and give them a outragous price and expect to get it

Wrong. Know your expenses, bid the job so that you know you will make money, and be prepared to walk away if necessary. I would rather cut less lawns and make more money, than cut more, and make the same, or less after expenses. You can't stay in business if you do not do this.By the way, good post, Highlander316.

[highlander316]

thx everyone, nah I haven't called the IRS. We'll see how this year goes; if I see more and more popping up, I might try to convert them to legality at first, if not then maybe I will. But that's if they're touching higher priced areas that I want and they go in dirt cheap. Do a search for reporting illegals, I believe it was brought up once or twice in the past, with some pretty heated arguments too I think.

[jagmagic]

You guys are all hitting around it, but I think you are missing the point. You have to market to what people want. If lawns are being taken from you for $15.00, watch those lawn, keep a log of the addresses you've lost and wait for the guy who has to be flying through those lawns to screw it up. Then move in for the kill with a line like, "Wouldn't you like this lawn to look like it's being professionally kept since you are paying for that?" Then give them a price that you can do it for and make money. Are u working alone, or do you have employees?

look at ways to trim the fat so you can be more competative and push quality hard in all your marketing. Mention the lowballers lack of dependability when you bid for the job, mention your experience and you can get away with a higher price. Just always keep in mind your not the only show in town and treat it like there is compatition. Remember the potential customer is quite possibly under the impression all lawn guys are the same so the cheapest price is best.

I even went up to a house when I saw they were home and the lawn guy who under bid me was there mowing, the lines weren't strait, the trimming left gouges in the grass, the edging was terrible for a "professional" cut. I went up to the house leaving my truck and equipment right beside the other guys, and spoke with the lady pointing out the errors in her lawn that my crew and I wouldn't make. Then I said "you're paying $20.00 to him right? I will make your lawn look like it's worth paying for for only $8.00 more." She went out and paid him and I did her lawn the rest of that year, and raised her price by $5.00 this year (because of gas prices) . So there are ways to beat them, it just takes work.

[bmclouse]

thx everyone, nah I haven't called the IRS. We'll see how this year goes; if I see more and more popping up, I might try to convert them to legality at first, if not then maybe I will. But that's if they're touching higher priced areas that I want and they go in dirt cheap. Do a search for reporting illegals, I believe it was brought up once or twice in the past, with some pretty heated arguments too I think.

I was at the court house filling out my PP Tax March 1st, when a guy in another cubical was raiseing H@ll about them sending tax papers to his house and that he was on disability and had been for 4 years and that he didn't mow anymore. They made some calls for him to the business license office where they said it had been 4 years since he had paid for a license. So they put down that he no longer ran a business. He stormed out about 30 seconds before I got done. When I got out to the parking lot he was parked next to my truck. He had a lawn tractor and a push mower in the back of the truck and two trimmers on a rack. I rembered this guy from last summer he was mowing a yard in one of the subdivisions I work in.

I didn't say anything at the time I was busy. The more I think about it I should have turned him in.