We all are aware that Just Mowing

[turfman]

is a rather large operation in the Dallas market of TX. How does this happen? They seem to be pretty straight forward. $25/mow or $40 if you cancel before 6 times. $100/hour for the bed crew with an hour min. No fert or any treatments, just mowing. All billing seems to be done electronically.

Now, my ?'s are as follows:

Was it started from nothing or was the money already there (Daddy Backed)?
Was this the plan from day one--> did they build the business from $25 cuts?
Did they start with 1 truck and an open trailer and sparse equipment?
How long have they been in operation?
Does TJ physcially work or is he a office man?
What the heck do they do with their clippings. The website states they are bagged with Toro Prolines. They are then disposed of at the landfill at a per pound price. BUT... what do they do with the clippings in the meantime on the truck? Three mowers, 1 trimmer, 1 blower on a small dovetail bed= not a lot of room for debris!

Can anyone shed some light?

[Ric]

is a rather large operation in the Dallas market of TX. How does this happen? They seem to be pretty straight forward. $25/mow or $40 if you cancel before 6 times. $100/hour for the bed crew with an hour min. No fert or any treatments, just mowing. All billing seems to be done electronically.

Now, my ?'s are as follows:

Was it started from nothing or was the money already there (Daddy Backed)?
Was this the plan from day one--> did they build the business from $25 cuts?
Did they start with 1 truck and an open trailer and sparse equipment?
How long have they been in operation?
Does TJ physcially work or is he a office man?
What the heck do they do with their clippings. The website states they are bagged with Toro Prolines. They are then disposed of at the landfill at a per pound price. BUT... what do they do with the clippings in the meantime on the truck? Three mowers, 1 trimmer, 1 blower on a small dovetail bed= not a lot of room for debris!

Can anyone shed some light?

Tufman

I may be speaking out of turn. I believe TJ started out pushing a mower. But with 2800 accounts I am sure TJ doesn't get out of the office a hold lot. From what I have seen over the past few years of trying to follow Just Mow. I noticed they have targeted certain neighborhoods only to keep route tight.

I believe what we don't see from a far is the vast amount of expense in advertising.

[jgc8fan]

I'm sure he had a good chunk of money to invest from the get go. The plan is only profitable if you have the equipment and crews running from the start to handle enough accounts to make it work. I doubt he built it from $25 cuts. He MAY have run a conventional LCO for a time to save up, build credit etc... to get it running. I think I read (maybe on another un-nameable forum) that he pays a large amount per account in ad fees.

As far as clippings... Don't know how he does it, but I know how "I" would do it... I'd have the crews bag the clippings, leave them at the curb, and have a dump bed truck come along to pick them up. We have something like that here with a local LCO... They run all their crews in a certain area of town on certain days, they have a couple Ford Rangers that travel around carrying gas for the crews, and they have pickups pulling dump trailers to pick up yard waste the crews leave at the sites. You can tell when they are in an area that's for sure... Blue trucks with the company logo everywhere.

[Ric]

Jeff

Any business needs start up capital. But I believe you are discounting the value of a Business plan and good Marketing.

[jgc8fan]

Jeff

Any business needs start up capital. But I believe you are discounting the value of a Business plan and good Marketing.

Not at all... It's obvious that he had a good plan to put in place, and with his targets he get's extremely tight routes as well as I heard (maybe it was even one of your posts) that he puts around $300 worth of advertising for each new account he gets.

My post was just trying to dispel some over-optimism that most people have (including myself) when people find out about this operation. A lot of folks think that they can get rid of their big mowers buy a couple Prolines, drop their prices to $25, and build up this type of operation. I just think that's it's the type of thing that you have to have everything in place at once for it to work, and trying to get that idea across.

[turfman]

Ric:

I went into this business with no startup capital. To be honest, it wasn't even planned. It basically happened overnight. I was afraid and still am of failure, so that's what drives me. I had no plan, misc residential equip. and a goal. By no means and I implying that I am a veteran or a super sucess, as I have only 1 season under my belt.

At the end of this first season, I have a good idea of what the local market will bear. I have a good idea of what other lco's charge/cut and have set my own prices for apps. I have entertained the thought of lowering service costs to build volume. I am still up in the air as to what direction I want to head. The way I look at it is simple, I am a one man show that is one year old. If I want to make a change and focus my energy in a certain direction, it relatively easy. I don't have to turn a huge ship around in the middle of an ocean (if you catch my drift). So.... I can focus on gaining numerous $30 accounts or focus on gaining numerous larger accounts, or both. I understand it's all up to me and the type of business I want to build.

I have push mowed (21') 3500sqft and timed myself and have used a 36' wb (not much different, I know) and timed myself. I figure I can mow for profit by lowering my service price and run solo for a year or so. Then, with enough money saved, a crew forman would be hired and trained. You know where it goes from here!

Just my two!!

[GrassMaster]

I've got a Flash Light...

Was it started from nothing or was the money already there (Daddy Backed)?
Was this the plan from day one--> did they build the business from $25 cuts?
Did they start with 1 truck and an open trailer and sparse equipment?
How long have they been in operation?
Does TJ physcially work or is he a office man?
What the heck do they do with their clippings. The website states they are bagged with Toro Prolines. They are then disposed of at the landfill at a per pound price. BUT... what do they do with the clippings in the meantime on the truck? Three mowers, 1 trimmer, 1 blower on a small dovetail bed= not a lot of room for debris!

Can anyone shed some light?

We know one of 2 things, his business was started from scratch or they bought someone out to start with, then took the ball & ran with it. Does it matter if someone backed him or not? Most businesses you got to have a good bit of money to get started with anyways...

I've wrote mile longers how to start this business with no money, another one on how to start this business with $50 & how a guy started out with a box of Trash Bags, 2 used rakes & $15 in his pocket & 3 years later he was doing over $300,000 a year.

I doubt very seriously either one of the owners works in the field, I'm sure they in the rear with the gear. They probably got at least 2 cell phone implants each, a beeper & a elaborate GPS system in place. You can work in the field letting the business run you and go broke either financially and or physically. I'm sure they very busy in the office. I would hate to know that I had to answer their phones?

The grass clippings, they either leave them with the customer or they have a vehicle of some kind pick up the clippings. If I was cutting once a week LOL I would be running the bagging mowers with mulching blades & the chute blocked. You know if you leave the bag & mulching blade on but don't have the chute blocked you only picking up 1/3 to 1/2 max on the clippings. Wait a minute (They Mulch & makes $ense to me)

I have commercial cutters come in the shop all the time wanting mowers that would suck up the Dog & BBQ Grill if they could find one. If you cutting once a week you can run a Commercial Snapper with High Lifts on one half of the lawn & on the other side you can be running a Honda Mulcher with no bag... Their cut looks the same, so why do people want 21" WB that has such a powerful vacuum? My 1st commercial mower was a commercial Snapper & the day I ran a Honda was the last day I ran that Snapper. I now have better things to do than bag clippings, get clippings out of my eyes, going to store to get bags & getting filthy using a bagger. I want to look Pretty on the Job & besides all that I don't have time for that crap! :p

You hear all the time about guys saying that they had 2 or 3 crews & they went back to running one crew & they claim they make same amount of money and a lot less headaches. Something is bad wrong here?

It would probably take 3 crews plus to make you a decent salary. What if you could make just $3 to $5 an hour off each employee? In a labor intensive business as Lawn Service is it would probably take 15 to 20 people to make you a good salary, the more the merrier. Also it takes a lot more detail work to get top dollar than to get the average competing price.

When you have numbers of employees doing labor intensive work it's got to be ran like a finely tuned production line. You can't sit around after the whistle blows & BS with the boys 15 minutes every morning. Your truck goes down you can't have the crew doing imitations of the Three Stooges on the side of the road while you got dollar signs spinning backwards in your eye sockets trying to conjure up your first heart attack, you got to put them in another truck & get the job done. Money is time divided by work.

I'm sure they work hard on Routes, Scheduling & trying to shave a minute or 2 where they can. It's all about making money!

I've written several things about working smarter not harder. I get at least 2 or 3 e-mails a month on this & Rocket Science at this page located here...

http://www.lawnservicing.com/work-smarter-not-harder.htm

While some guys will spend 20 or more hours going from dealer to dealer looking for a good deal on a Toro 21" & save $50... I would be out there & made $500 with my new mower that I didn't save the $50 on.

While some guys are out there that haven't even made a dime yet are at a CPA's office talking to them about something that hasn't even happened yet & you give him a couple of hundred bucks for words... I'll be out there with my Million Coverage as a Sole Proprietor & not even have a L.S.M.F.T or a LLC after GrassMasters Lawn Service, I'll pocket the $200 & be made another $100 or so because I didn't have time to talk to someone that's a CPA that has one of the Highest Percentages of Bankrupting as any other profession there is. I know 5 CPA's 4 of them have bankrupted at least once. Yes I now use a CPA to do my end of the year taxes, but I need no other advise from him.

The worse person on any job that cost the company the most money & holds the job up, keeping it from being completed earlier is the Owner. That's why most successful people are never there on the job.

We all have plenty of choices & time to make the choices... Snooze & Lose.

[Ric]

Dan

I guess we all should be honest about jumping into this business with out the proper plan or capital, I did. But I believe the point here is we shouldn't continue to do business with out a plan. Those who fail to plan, Plan to fail. It is never too late to make that business plan and as we get more experience in the business, we need to modify that business Plan.

Seeking out further education is a good way to get that experience or knowledge, helps make better business plans. Forums like this one are part of seeking out that education. Trade Magazines are another very good source of education. Both of these can be done in your own home and at your own pace. Seminars, Vocational schools and colleges are even better sources. You can learn from classmate also in this type classes, also. I have in some cases learned more from a fellow sitting next to in a class, than the professor in some cases. But My main point here is, don't keep your head buried in the sand.

[lorenzo piedra]

I most likely get chastised for this comment but I think Justmows selection of 21" Toro lawnmowers increase labor costs dramatically.

Yes one will be needed per crew for 2' gates but two 32" Wright Standers per truck (full size pickup with handy ramp gate) would give a huge increase in daily production.

Plus the Wrights will last five seasons or more so actual equipment costs will also be much lower.

[Ric]

Professor Stone

I tend to agree with your theory about a larger and faster mower. Two factors to consider are, 1st size of the properties being serviced and loading and unloading time. 2nd maintenance cost of a mower that would have to make it multiply seasons under heavy use. The 1st case of time saved can be found out with a simple stop watch, in a short period of time. The 2nd is really up for grabs. Care of Equipment is a big factor and employee are the worlds worst about caring for company equipment. Having Been there and done that and having had an Employee tell me " Tools are made to be broken". I can see the other side of the coin. The 21" mowers are much less expensive to replace. Therefore This becomes a management decision as to slower production for a higher bottom line.

[GrassMaster]

Mr. Stone you are correct but...

A larger faster mower also does more damage...

Those mowers would also require more training, which most 21" mowers can be operated by the average person.

Training & Learning = More Damage (Mistakes)

I'm sure they've studied the end results both ways!

[Ric]

A larger faster mower also does more damage...

Those mowers would also require more training, which most 21" mowers can be operated by the average person.

Training & Learning = More Damage (Mistakes)

I'm sure they've studied the end results both ways!

GM

Yes something I forgot. Getting employees to report mistakes or minor accidents is a big problem also. They will cover up some of the most important things that happen in fear of there job. Without knowing about these thing it is impossible to make corrections. Some of these things that could be taken care cheaply if I knew about become and Expensive problem if left uncared for. KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid) has it's advantages.

[lorenzo piedra]

Ok the Wrights are too expensive and anything dual hydro powered can do some property damage.

But what about using Quick 36 mowers?

I am sure it they bought 10 at a time they would one be a few hundred over the Toro 21"s.

Just the offset deck on the quick 36 is a huge selling point in trimming capability vs. a Toro 21. Plus the Quick 36s would be a much better choice for operators that are south of the border seasonals.

Gary at better outdoor would be wise to send you a demo to test over the winter.

[chriscampbell]

I have have read many of tj posts on other sites. He mulches all the yards unless it is the first cut and it is taller than normal, then it is bagged. Stone, think about this, only needs 4 cylinder truckers, cheaper trucks, gas, insurance. The mowers are replaced every year, and sold at half of org. cost. So it costs him about $500 per mower each year. The employees are paid by yards cut. He said some of his best guys are making over a $1000 a week. So his costs are fixed for each yard. No training period a monkey can figure out a 21" in ten minutes, takes a few weeks with a walkbehind or a like. Each crew cheif is responsible for the two other workers to the team. He requires that each crew cheif have a cell phone so he can contact them at any time. To make money is this competive thing called grass cutting you have to do volume, just like any other industry in the US. This setup will not work in every market but it have proven itself in texas.

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

The mowers are replaced every year, and sold at half of org. cost. So it costs him about $500 per mower each year

You telling me that he is paying retail when buying 50 units, I am sure he is not paying $1150 per mower, probably more like $900, then sells them for$550. On his website it just says"new these mowers are $1150". It doesn't say he pays that for them.