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Well I asked this on other forum but more people on this one so Ill ask again. Just starting up this season. My wife and I. Will be part-time residential, No accounts as of yet (havnt advertised). Looking for 10-20 accounts. About half acre or less properties to mow. I have $5K for new commercial equipment. Services include all the basic regular stuff and aeration. I will be trimming and edging, while my wife will be mowing, then I'll come help with another mower when Im done. So far Im looking at 2 21" exmark blade clutch walk behind/push mowers. 1 Red max stick edger and 1 redmax straight stick trimmer. Also will have a redmax HH blower. I will also be looking at a new bluebird 3.5 briggs aerator. Any advice on this set up. If advised a bigger walkbehind, could my wife handle it (shes athletic and no wimp, but still a fragile woman..oops! no offense to any women!)? Some have said rent aerator and buy bigger mower. Why rent for $100/day when aerator will be payed off with an easy 60 $30 jobs? Im thinking after established, next year or year after, buy bigger mower (36" W/B) and have two 21" mowers for small areas and 1 as back up. Please help.. Im soon to be making a big investment and dont want to screw it up? Thanks for everyones advise and knowledge-
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I would really look to find a bigger mower. If you are set on buying the new aerator that's your choice, but then I would find a used 36" wb and one of the 21". IMO you will be using the wb all season where the aerator will only be used spring and fall. Which will make you more money? Which will be used more? Can you find a used aerator for less? And I also think it will be much harder to pull 60 jobs then you think. Good luck with what ever choice you make! -
I agree with bulldog, canx buying the aerator. If you were to get 60 lawns to aerate, you could do those in a week, only be out 300 for renting the machine, and probably make enough to buy your new 36" WB. That's if you're still able to walk.
Good luck.
RLComment
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Originally posted by BNMLUTZ
$30 to aerate? Stay out of my neighborhoods!
I don't do it for less than $50 and most jobs are $70+.Comment
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Dude, I live in Utah for hell sakes. It isnt beverly hills. $30 a lawn w/o appointment is a steal. I can bang out a neighborhood for $30 in no time.Comment
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Read Carfefully. Your Future Is At Stake.
1) No BBC on the 21" Metros and NOT the push model: Go w/21" Metro/Kaw No BBC Self Propelled. These units are too heavy to push.
2) Do Not purchase a stick edger. Learn how to use your trimmer to edge.
3) Do Not purchase a HH blower. The blower is one of the most important pieces of equipment you will own Go Large. Redmax 8000.
4) For 1/2 acre you need a 48" or at least a 36". Please be sure the unit has a dual hydro drive and says eXmark.
Good LuckComment
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for once jack d is half-right....
first off.. in my opinion..
do not get 2 21" push mowers... you need one... if that.. i bought a $400 toro commeracail model last year and never used it once... waste of money but it's something you have to have
get a 36" w/b like everyone is saying. i suggest a 36" hydro toro w/b floating deck.. this unit will run you... i belive $4200.. if that is too much you can go with the 36" gear drive toro w/b fixed deck.. this model is $2800.. you can also find used machines for less
forget that areator.. i have bids on 5 large commercial properties which include areation and they don't exceed $500 for all the aeration combined.. however for dethatching they total $1500.. offer thoses services hand in hand and rent until you can afford the machine and trust me.. right now that is a terrible idea to do.. i might buy one next year.. but until then i will rent one for a day for $60 and clean up $400 profit...
buy an echo...
backpack blower
trimmer
edger
- all commercial models
this set up...
36" toro gear fixed w/b
echo trimmer
echo edger
echo bp blower
will run you roughly $3500
a trailer...
your looking at a 5x8 to save money will cost you around 600-800
however if you actually want to make this a money making business you will be upgrading your trailer to a 6x16 or 7x16 next year.. i promise you.. so to save you time and money now buy that trailer.. will cost between 1,000 and 1,500... you will thank me later
pm me if you have any questions
- aaronComment
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In my opinion Jack D. is 100% right and Getter Done is mostly wrong.
Here's what I would purchase:
Exmark Turf Tracer 36" ($5000) [if you have no gates under 48" and you are going to spend extra you would be better off going with a 48" TT]
Lawnboy Commercial 21" ($700-800) or Toro Proline 21" (1000)
Redmax BCZ Trimmer ($270)
Redmax 8000 Blower ($500)
Mulch kits for both mowers (not sure how much Exmarks mulch kit is...but trust me I have mulched before while working for other companies and it's much, much better; less blowing to do, and most importantly you don't have to worry about what direction the mower discharge chute is facing [with discharge you have to watch for flower beds, cars, people etc...this advantage only will give you a huge boost in efficiency; bagging is for suckers only]
I own the Redmax stick edger, and it's great, but it's a waste of money. $400 down the drain- using the trimmer is twice as fast and leaves virtually the same result. It just takes a little practice to get good.
Rent an aerator. Trust me, take out a loan or try to save up the additional money to buy this setup. It is the best basic set-up you can buy. The efficiency you will get with this setup vs Getter Done's setup or any other setup is worth 10x the price difference. Remember, in lawn-cutting, efficiency is everything. Efficiency=$$$. If, exerting the same energy, you can do twice the lawns in a week with one setup vs another, you make twice the money. Getter Done has obviously never used a wide range of lawn care equipment and is blissfully ignorant about how mediocre the setup he recommended is. Getter Done is correct that you should get as large a trailer as possible (make sure you get 6.5-7' width) now. I started out with a 5x8 becuase it seemed like the sensible thing and by the second week in business I wished I had spent for a 6x12 or bigger. It's much easier unloading and loading with a big trailer, it leaves room for racks and working with equipment on the trailer, and it leaves room for a second big mower you might purchase later. It's also good to have a backup mower on the trailer (not everyone has that luxury, but in the future you might) in case one dies in the field.
Exmark is by far the best make of walk-behind mowers. Toro either has pistols or T-bar, both of which are way inferior to Exmark's ECS controls. Exmark also has the best deck, excellent reliability, etc.
Getting a belt-drive or other non-hydro mower is a terrible idea in your situation.
My first mower was an Exmark Metro 36" (belt-drive). It is a great mower for a belt-drive. Belt-drives absolutely suck compared to hydro mowers. Hydro mowers have two huge benefits: automatic reverse and infinite throttle. With a hydro, you simply pull your thumb back and the mower goes in reverse, push your thumb forward and it goes forward. Infinite throttle means that if you push your thumb lightly it goes slowly, push it hard and it goes faster (there's an "infinite" number of speeds you can go based on the pressure you apply)- it's very easy to operate a hydro mower and requires zero physical strength. Belt-drives don't have automatic reverse, and on every lawn you cut you will be exerting huge amounts of energy pulling the walkbehind backwards to turn around, back out of corners, etc. With a belt-drive you have to reach down and switch gears to change speeds, which is awkward and inefficient. If you're going into open fields you push down all the way, go into a tight area with delicate objects and you ease off and go slow.
I'm a very strong guy and in good shape, so handling a belt-drive is pretty easy for me and I can mow with belt probably about 60-70% the speed of hydro. But the difference is fatigue. This job is so, so much better when you can finish the work-day with some energy and are able to have a life, rather than just crashing every day after work because you're exhausted.
I guarantee: your wife will not be able to handle a belt-drive for a full day of work, and likely not even one decent sized yard (at least efficiently). Most women I know would not be able to unload a belt-drive mower from a trailer. Also, pulling and jerking a 21" mower all-day, even a self-propelled one, is not easy.
With your wife able to handle the hydro mower, you could grab the more physically demanding 21" once you are finished trimming. You probably won't even need to grab the 21" and could just grab the blower because your wife will already be almost finished mowing.Comment
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No one has given you bad advice at all. The makes and models are all preference, but I would say do NOT buy 2 21" mowers and do NOT buy the aerator. If you can rent it $100 / day, and only will need it spring/fall, just schedule ALL of your regular customer's aerations during one week and then get a deal to rent it for the whole week. You'll come home with much more money than spending it to buy the aeator and trying to keep it maintained and running when you arent using it. Then, when random customers call for aeration, try to tell them when it's best to do it (during your week of aeration) and then if they still want it done now, charge them extra for renting it, and get it for a half day, or even by the hour. About the mower, Buy a 36" Walk behind and if you cant afford the belt drive, dont buy a sulky. They advertise a Quick 36 Hydrom on these forums for a good price, but I have no experiece with it, so cant tell you pros / cons on that. It will get lawns done quicker and will actually be less work for your wife if she has a sulky. With the 21", she'll have to turn it. The wB's turn themselves with the pistol grips. Ive even heard recently about this new 28'' hustler z turn for about $2800. I dont know if that price is true, but I heard another maintenance company a friend of mine owns bought one brand new last year for that price...
As for the handheld equipment (trimmer / edger / blower) , I use all echo except for my chainsaw, which is a stihl. No prblems with any as of yet. They start the 2nd or third pull everytime. Again, the brand is preference though. You really need to find a dealership that has a good service center, and buy what they carry / stock parts for so less down time on repairs and maintenance. Buy a edger (unless you feel comfortable edging with trimmer, which I dont),trimmer, and STRONG blower. Blower are great because the stronger they are, the more time you save....PLUS, if strong enough, leaf cleanups are a breeze with a good blower. That's major money in the fall cause EVERYONE hates raking.
Trailers- I cant talk there other than saying buy BIG. If you think you need a 5x8 now, and might need a 6x12 if you get real big in a couple years, then go ahead and buy a 6x16. Buy bigger than you think you'll ever need, and youll never be mad at yourself. I bought an enlosed trailer, but was looking at a 5x8 enclosed. Thank God the people on this forum talked me into getting a 6x12. Im readt to outgrow that now (been in business one year next month) with one more mower. I can fit a 36" JD with sulky, 21" push mower (for islands), and a 60" JD QuikTrak (Stand up ZTR) on it with inches of room left. I couldnt buy a sit-down ZTR due to space. Buy bigger than you think you'll EVER need....just my .02- Your home for Gator Tailgating and Gator Sports News and Forums.Comment
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Well, you will learn sooo much your first year.
Loose the HH blower - get a Redmax 7001 or better yet, a used EB-6200.
Loose the aerator.period.
Learn to edge with your trimmer, but just remember... that string is whipping pretty fast and can and will kick up stones... that break glass... that really hurts big-time to pay for out of your pocket. After your first year you will know if you want a stick edger.
Those 21' mowers will wear you out unless the properties are postage-stamps.
Try to buy your equipment used. You will get more for your money. Next year, when you are so much, much smarter, you can buy some new stuff and keep your used stuff as backups.The area's Low Price LeaderComment
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I do belive that what you and i both said are basicly the same thing?? besides the obvious difference.. brands.. which is mearly a preference as has been stated.... i suggested a hydro 36" floating w.b toro... but seems how we are on a restricted budget and after you add taht with the power tools and the trailer we are exceeding it therefore we need to go down to a lesser mower... which will serve almost anyone fine their first season...Originally posted by njnewbie
just some thoughtsComment
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Aeration's for suckers
Lose the aeration gig. I don't see any real profit from that. 99% of potential customers out there are going to turn to their current LCO a.k.a. not you for their aeration needs. Lawn Care companies who are already established may buy an aerator with the hopes of persuading most of their clientele to purchase aeration. Those who don't already have an LCO are not going to give two sh*ts about aeration.
In my opinion anyone renting equipment is almost always the sucker. They're obviously getting somewhat ripped by the rental company (who wouldn't rent it if it was really a truly fair deal), they have to pick up and return the equipment, be extra careful with it, jack up the price of their services and therefore close fewer deals.
If the price is right, almost everyone in the world is in the market for A) trying a lawn service for the first time or B)switching companies.
Use crappy equipment and have poor efficiency and that right price will send your company deep into the red.Comment
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sorry njnewbie, I believe you are wrong on the subject of rentals. From time to time it is necessary. Are you saying you'd rather go out and spend the thousands of $$$ on a piece of equipment you might only use a few times? If so, then hey, that's your game. But most won't. You can also get insurance on the piece of equipment for just a few dollars more, which might be worth your while especially if you know the equipment is going to be used hard. I know when I work, everything gets pushed to the limit. Of course, there is the possibility of the equipment breaking, but that is something that can happen, no matter if you own it or rent it.Comment
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My "game" involves equipment I own and use on a regular basis. That equipment brings in all the income for my business. The success of your business shouldn't rest on doing all these new tasks that don't even bring in enough revenue to supply your company with the real capability (what I mean is both ownership [I'm not screwed if the rental store is closed or they run out of the machine] and labor that is able to perform the task efficiently and without new training) to perform them. That tells me there's a problem with your game plan.
It's much more profitable to fill your schedule with work you always have the capability to perform. I have mowers, trimmers, and blowers on hand all the time. I have workers available all the time who know how to operate them well. If someone asked me to aerate, I wouldn't do it. The stress alone that it causes makes it a loss for me. I have to go use up gas and time to drive to the store, take time to rent it, then teach a worker who's probably unfamiliar with it how to use it, then gas and time to drive it back and return it. Not to mention the high rates for the actual renting. Meanwhile I'm under the gun to finish with the equipment as soon as possible, and if I forget a spot or need to redo something later I can't. I think it's better to set up a relationship with a company that doesn't mow/trim/blow but does aerate (if they exist) and refer customers to each other.
Like I said, if you need to rent on a regular basis there's likely a problem with your game plan. It's at least something you should strive to move away from.Comment
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njnewbie, I've come to appreciate your common sense posts, but I'm with highlander regarding rentals.
I agree that if you're renting equipment on a regular basis something is wrong. Once a rental yard told me they pay off new lawn equipment in a matter of days. Yes rentals can be expensive, but there are times when renting is appropriate.
Most guys who'd rent an aerater are the ones who operate solo. They schedule a full day of aerations back to back. They rent the aerator for the whole day and return later that afternoon. Is that stupid? Not in my book. Now if a company had enough aeration jobs which paned out over multiple days in the spring and fall would renting be appropriate? Not really, this is when it's time to buy your own aerater.
The same applies for other similar equipment, such as tillers, vertislicers, etc. If the equipment is just sitting around not making you money it's not worth buying, IMO.Comment
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