starter fert?????

[Bobbygedd]

starter fert 20-28-5. application rate 3.3 lbs per k. am i missing something? does this seem odd?

[Ric]

starter fert 20-28-5. application rate 3.3 lbs per k. am i missing something? does this seem odd?

BooBy

I like a little more K but then I don't know your soil.

[Bobbygedd]

a "little " more? that's A LOT more than any starter i ever used. i know your grass types require, what, like 7 lbs of nitrogen, per k, crammed into a 4 month period, but around here 4-5 is more than enough, over 12 months. this starter was a bit high, ok, ALOT HIGH, i thought

[Ric]

a "little " more? that's A LOT more than any starter i ever used. i know your grass types require, what, like 7 lbs of nitrogen, per k, crammed into a 4 month period, but around here 4-5 is more than enough, over 12 months. this starter was a bit high, ok, ALOT HIGH, i thought

BooBy

Look at what each element does to help plant growth and development. N causes top growth. P causes root mass. K causes root extension. New seed need more P to establish roots. But K will help establish deeper roots by extension. Because Turf is a Herbaceous plant with a high growth rate it requires more N than woody ornamental that have a slower growth rate.

After establishment, Universities recommend a 4-1-2 ratio. Look at most common blends 16-4-8 or 24-5-11 and 20-2-10. In all cases K is 1/2 N and stay in tune with universities recommendations. Please don't point Scotts Bonus S at 29-2-3. You are paying more for the ink on the bag than the product inside. Scotts doesn't even make that product, they only market it . All Fertilizer Elements are only chemicals on the commodity market and Urea is the cheapest element per pound of all the Elements. Read between the lines and Scotts bonus S is a real rip off. You might as well put down straight Urea 46-0-0.

[MASTERMOWER]

Mr. Barbie is proof one doesn't need a college eduKation to be a genius.

[timturf]

Mr. Barbie is proof one doesn't need a college eduKation to be a genius.

I like that!

I like to see as much k as p when establishing a new lawn or overseeding, little iron also

[Bobbygedd]

well, how come most starters (and "winterizers") are more like 10-20-20, or something very low in n? i was critized by the "pros" when i said that i aerate, + seed, and use like a 25-10-10.

[MASTERMOWER]

Mr. Barbie, what does Nitrogen do? Answer that, then think it over for awhile, or in your case a couple days. Why would a freshly seeded lawn need ample amounts of nitrogen??

[Dr.Bizzaro]

This is an example of how far ahead of the curve the guys who use LIUQUIDS over Granular formulations. Seeding? Think Iron Roots 2, and mix in some liquid Urea...general purpose ferts are just that- but with liquids one can create their own adventure.

PNW 3-1-2 works best, this year...

[Bobbygedd]

Mr. Barbie, what does Nitrogen do? Answer that, then think it over for awhile, or in your case a couple days. Why would a freshly seeded lawn need ample amounts of nitrogen??

i know exactly what u r saying. when starting from scratch, i use very low n. when overseeding an established lawn (where i want the client to see, what appears to, optimum results) i'll use high n. you figure it out

[quiet]

This is an even better question than it appears on the surface, and illustrates the importance of knowing your soils. Is the soil already high in P? Then what's the ph? How about the base saturation levels? CEC?

P benefits the plants, but only if it's available at the root tip. But too much P present can bind up too many other nutrients the plant needs.

So how much P is really needed for a starter? Maybe just a "maintenance dose"? Small amount with small prills!

And I sure agree with Bobby's point about low K. Wouldn't you want root elongation and vascular health to those new plants?

[Ric]

This is an even better question than it appears on the surface, and illustrates the importance of knowing your soils. Is the soil already high in P? Then what's the ph? How about the base saturation levels? CEC?

P benefits the plants, but only if it's available at the root tip. But too much P present can bind up too many other nutrients the plant needs.

So how much P is really needed for a starter? Maybe just a "maintenance dose"? Small amount with small prills!

And I sure agree with Bobby's point about low K. Wouldn't you want root elongation and vascular health to those new plants?

And I sure agree (or disagree??) with Bobby's point about low K. Wouldn't you want root elongation and vascular health to those new plants?



Quite

Good Point about Soil Bound P. Just east of me by less than 50 miles is some of the worlds largest Phosphate Rock reserves. For well over a century it has been strip mined and shipped all over the world. Dave In Mulberry has in his signature some about being the Phosphate capital of the world. Having been to his home I can tell you his area has many lakes now that were once phosphate pits. Just south of me less than 15 Miles are Dolomite Pits, where Dolomite is also strip mined, crushed, screened, bagged and send to our northern Members of LSF. What does that tell you about my soil??

Understanding a Soil Sample's Report is part of the game also. One of my little claims to fame was a new customer who was using one of the Big Boys. They pulled a Soil Sample and had their experts come and make all kinds of treatment plans and got little response. However when shown the soil sample it was real apparent to me what the problem was. I started applying the treatments that broke lose all of the tons of Fert they had put down and got a great response at little chemical cost to myself. With the information supplied would anyone care to guess what that chemical was that I used and why. Quite, Tim, MM and Stone please don't answer.



BTW When I answered BooBy I didn't expect this thread to go where it is going.

[Ric]

OK

I will open another can of worms here. What Ratios of N to K cause the depletion of P and what ratios cause P to be not depleted??




PS. This chemistry is a little over my head, so don't expect a technical explanation or try and argue with me about it.

[timturf]

This is an even better question than it appears on the surface, and illustrates the importance of knowing your soils. Is the soil already high in P? Then what's the ph? How about the base saturation levels? CEC?

P benefits the plants, but only if it's available at the root tip. But too much P present can bind up too many other nutrients the plant needs.

So how much P is really needed for a starter? Maybe just a "maintenance dose"? Small amount with small prills!
And I sure agree with Bobby's point about low K. Wouldn't you want root elongation and vascular health to those new plants?

with small prills always important when applying p

[Dallas Turf]

And I sure agree (or disagree??) with Bobby's point about low K. Wouldn't you want root elongation and vascular health to those new plants?



Quite

Good Point about Soil Bound P. Just east of me by less than 50 miles is some of the worlds largest Phosphate Rock reserves. For well over a century it has been strip mined and shipped all over the world. Dave In Mulberry has in his signature some about being the Phosphate capital of the world. Having been to his home I can tell you his area has many lakes now that were once phosphate pits. Just south of me less than 15 Miles are Dolomite Pits, where Dolomite is also strip mined, crushed, screened, bagged and send to our northern Members of LSF. What does that tell you about my soil??

Understanding a Soil Sample's Report is part of the game also. One of my little claims to fame was a new customer who was using one of the Big Boys. They pulled a Soil Sample and had their experts come and make all kinds of treatment plans and got little response. However when shown the soil sample it was real apparent to me what the problem was. I started applying the treatments that broke lose all of the tons of Fert they had put down and got a great response at little chemical cost to myself. With the information supplied would anyone care to guess what that chemical was that I used and why. Quite, Tim, MM and Stone please don't answer.



BTW When I answered BooBy I didn't expect this thread to go where it is going.

Sulphur!!!!