The Problems with Cabovers.

[Zack]

Not fuel efficient.

Unlike a trailer if the vehicle goes down you cannot simply hitch up the equip. to another vehicle (this is especially a problem for small or solo operations.

Unable to unhitch equip. at a jobsite and run errands or pick-up supplies while the crew works.

Often to wide to be practical in smaller residential streets (pylons and other time-killing practices are often required).

Unlike an open trailer employees must enter the cab to grab trimmers blowers etc. (very uproductive for mow & blows)

Ugly.

[Scaper-S2k]

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Wow, now you show true ignorance towards this subject! You are beginning to make me wonder.

One, cabovers ARE more effecient on fuel. They return 17-22 mpg.

Two, they NEVER break down. I have never had problems with mine. Look in the truck trader, many sell with 250,000 - 300,000 miles with NO PROBLEMS.

Too wide to be practical?? The beds are 8' wide total. A 6' wide trailer is about 8' when you add in its wheel wells.

"enter the cab to get trimmers". Wrong, you don't need to get enclosed boxes. My mowing beds are not enclosed.

Unable to unhitch equipment to run errands? Dumb, if the guys are working with the equipment, why can you not leave?


Oh, and here's some more....

They turn sharper than even compact pickup trucks. They are the same price as pickups. They don't break down. You don't need to worry about pulling trailers. Nor do you have to worry where to park a 35'-40' drag! I can simply pull in off a busy street, work, then back out just like a car.


Oh, even the smallest have payloads over 8,000 pounds! Show me a pickup like that.

You say very unproductive? You are making yourself look like a youngin'. Get real.

Go look at these that I have at the link! Then realize you made a dumb mistake by making fun of them. And I know you won't agree, I've deal with your type before. Hey, maybe you can say that they are bad because they come in white color? Yeh, whatever.

http://community.webshots.com/album/27302434isMTmVjwJj

<<Don't Fear the Green!>>

[Scaper-S2k]

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Zack, tell us all about your 'job' please. Oh, and lets see some pictures to back it all up.

Thank you and please have a nice day.

Keep trying to put them down, I love contradicting you about them. The more I read your comments above, the more I see you were grasping trying to put them down. "Pylons"? Funny, very funny.

Nice try, but try harder.

<<Don't Fear the Green!>>

[Green Giant]

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I like em'! The Mitsubishi is my choice. Lease or a buy is a lot better than I could do on a 1/2 ton.
The 14 ft. landscaper bed with racks,dovetail is the ticket. SWB and the diesel. Perfect IMO.
Good MPG's,durability,easy to handle (i.e.- parking,turning)
Friend of mine in the biz has the GMC version and loves it. Said it handles better than his car!
It'll be my next move.
I love my F-350,but that along with the 18ft. trailer gets to be a PITA.

Dennis E.
Grasshopper Lawn
Mulberry,Fl.
(Green Giant is my truck!)

[zephyr]

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I agree. I like the one's that are enclosed totally too. There are a few companies in the neighborhood that use them and I think they are ingenious. Keeps the machinery from the weather, theft, and to me it looks more professional. The one's you guys use are nice also. To me it eliminates having to worry about pulling a trailer through traffic. This guy is just too much. like i said, I think he is some pimple-faced 16 year old who does his grandmother's yard and some of the old ladies yards down the street. In fact you are probably the guy who stole my trimmer the other day too huh Zack. You need to replace that Homelite you are using because you just struck gold doing the homeless shelter next door.

[Scaper-S2k]

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Zephyr, that was funny!


Hey Mr. Green Giant, you're dead on with the Mitsibishi. I have an Isuzu (exactly like the GMC) also, just bought it last year. But drive quality and most definately inside ergonomics goes hands down to my other Mitsibishis. The Isuzu lease was just too good to pass up at the time. But now they go through GMAC financing and are a slight bit more. The Mits. cost the same and has a larger payload. While I still like my Isuzu/GMC cabover, I strongly push the Mits over them. It's hard to believe the difference, quite dramatic acually.

Guys, definatley check out the Mits. I run the FE-SP model and the FH models. But hey, I still won't put down the Isuzu, it serves it's purpose nicely!

<<Don't Fear the Green!>>

[Zack]

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Poor turning radius.

Dangerous in head on collision.

Expensive for the solo or small operator who wants a multi-use vehicle.

Dealers are often few and far away.

Provides no means for a back-up tower if the vehicle goes down.

Generally too long and wide to be used as a plow truck on many residential drives.

Ugly.

[Scaper-S2k]

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Ah, here we go again! Nothing that will stand up, you will soon get the picture and understand I hope.......Maybe.

Poor turning radius you say? They turn sharper than ANY pickup truck. And actually HALF of an F-550 (seriously). And that is a pickup without the trailer!

Dangerous in head on collision you say? Wrong, THINK, it doesn't matter how much is out in front of the wheels. In a wreck, it is what your body hits, which is the dash and windsheild. They are the same distance as any pickup truck from you. You can drive a pickup with a 10' long bumper sticking straight out, but when hit, YOU will still hit the dash at the same speed! Get it? It's you and the dash board, not you and the front bumper! Physics dude!

Solo operators would hate it you say? If they have an additional personal vehicle they would be pleased. SEPERATE WORK AND PLEASURE!! You can not only haul mowers, but my mower bodies on mine will hold 10 yards of mulch....NO TRAILER! Work truck for work, other vehicle for play.

No dealers you say?? Dealers are everywhere, you just aren't use to looking for them like you would look for a Domestic truck dealer. There are lots of them.

No means of Back Up if it goes down you say? That's truly dumb to say! So, when your pickup goes down, I guess it's "soul" keeps pulling the trailer!!! Duh. If any vehicle goes down, it causes problems. Here's a hint...THEY DON'T GO DOWN like pickups!!!


Too long and too wide for plowing you say??

Look at my pictures, I have one that plows! Oh, it is the same length as a pickup AND no wider! And I mean NO WIDER. Not to mention how easy it is to see the plow and with a sharp turning radius, it's easier to plow.


Zack, no biggie, it is obvious you are just trying to argue here. An arguement comparing a pickup to a full fledged commercial vehicle is an easy choice. Your "not fuel effecient and bad turning radius" proves you have no clue about these vehicles. That is what these trucks were designed for! Again.....Read and go try them before passing judgement.

NICE TRY, BYE BYE NOW.

<<Don't Fear the Green!>>

Edited by - scaper-s2k on Jun 30 2002 11:42:45 PM

[Zack]

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Poor turning radius you say? They turn sharper than ANY pickup truck.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

What do you want to wager on that statement Husky boy?

As far as the rest you are letting your personal preferences blind you to some serious downfalls.
They ARE NOT as easy to get repaired & dealers ARE generally FURTHER away. You may have been lucky with repairs but I know of 1 LCO in my area who b&^%$'s contantly about DOWNTIME. He can't hook his equip. up to anything else because he blew all his $$$ on a one stop shop. So when the truck goes down. HE'S DOWN.

Seperating business and personal vehicles? MANY CAN'T.
My personal vehicle is not my work vehicle BUT it is a truck that can be used in a pinch or if I want to run some errands, or pick up supplies while the crews are working.

AND I would rather pull up to a customers house in a shiny pick-up over a faux "sports car" or CABOVER to give an estimate.

I'm done with you rookie.

[lawrence stone]

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The problem with these expensive trucks is that you are on a perpetual payment cycle. Plus in PA the sales tax on a lease is 9% vs. straight payment of 6%.

My C1500 work truck was purchased new in Jan. 1993 with sales tax for $11k with a 4-year 4.9% GMAC payment book. Plus since my truck is 9 years old and almost worthless (in the eyes of the insurance company) I just have the minimum insurance required by law ($232/year).

My truck has only 84k miles and no rust since it gets little usage in the winter months. The handy ramp end gate makes it a "cabover" with an 8-foot bed. The end gate folds right into the bed of my trailer giving 20 feet of room for equipment.

This truck (unless it gets totaled) is going to be the last work truck I will buy. I can get another 20+ years of service from this vehicle with no problem. In a few years it is going to get a paint job (refrigerator white) and repair all the dings and dents that it wears like the stripes on a soldiers sleeve.

My Tradesman 300 camper van acts as a back up to the pickup and offers a jobsite motel for performing multiple day athletic field renovation jobs far from home. Plus the camper van can haul over a ton of fertilizer if needed. Must times I have all of the fertilizer dropped shipped via common carrier in advance.

It is most likely if you add up all the expenses that cabover or power stroke off Ford is a drain of around $800 a month or about $10k per year.

So in essence I make $10K more per year right out of the starting gate. Now when you take into consideration I bought my last brand new lawnmower in 1995 I have no mower payments. So you can add another $4k I am not spending per year for a ZTR with a payment book.

Now throw another $1k on top of that for $15K total because I do most of all my truck and mower PM and repair in house.

Now if you are $15K in the hole right off the line you will be at a disadvantage when bidding very competitive jobs.


"The Frugal Agronomist"

[Scaper-S2k]

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Some of you just won't get it. Stone, if you are going to compare your 1993 1/2 ton to a new truck, why not put them on level ground and compare your truck to a 1993 CABOVER??? See, then it makes sense. Then the cabover shines again. You can't compare your price of a used 1993 1/2 ton with a 1500 lb payload to a new 2002 cabover with a 9000 lb payload. Come on now.

Many need more than a 1/2 ton to do work.

My dumper cost me $450 per month and gets better mileage than your loaded down 1/2 ton. Not just that but will carry 12 yards of mulch to a site and all equipment. Now, how many trips would you need to make. Or would you pay for delivery? See?

They are priced LESS than full size pickups, they NEVER break down, they get BETTER fuel mileage. Along with the other benefits listed above.

Stone, your $15k thought is really incorrect.

I can make MORE money with a cabover than a pickup and SAVE more money too. No worries of break down or an underpowered vehicle for what we do. The trip saving alone save the $450.

Compare apples to apples man.



&lt;&lt;Don't Fear the Green!&gt;&gt;

[Zack]

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Scaper S2k, the whole point of these message boards is to try to help rookies and established LCO's such as yourself expand their horizons. You seem to be stuck in a rut, destined to make the same mistakes over & over.
I realize the European are a stubborn people but you have to let go of the same tired methods and blind brand loyalty if you want your business to reach its full potential.
Good Luck!

[Scaper-S2k]

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Zack, I know who you are, and won't let you upset me. I don't in the other place and won't here. Never made one bad remark towards you there.

Stuck in a rut? Same tired methods? I believe I do things the new way...'outside the box'. And funny, my profits are nearly twice the national average. So, what gives? Who's doing something DIFFERENT and correct?

Again, I am from Cincinnati born and raised. Not European thank you.

Blind brand loyalty you say? I have owned 3 different brands of cabovers and have admittedly said my Mitsibishi's were better.

I buy the brands that I have fully researched and feel ARE better.

And my biz is EXACTLY where I want it too be....high profits, no headaches, great employees and contracts.

And willing to help ANYONE out that asks. I'm a nice guy if you ask around, please quite bugging me about things you have not even experienced yet.

Thank You.

&lt;&lt;Don't Fear the Green!&gt;&gt;

[Bryan]

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You guy's do keep this interesting.

Until I have read some of these posts by scraper, I can admit I would have never even considerd a cab-over. Looking at it now I would think of a cab-over to be used by a company doing only big commercial jobs, like the big executive buildings and such.

This has been informative.

Green is good !!

[Scaper-S2k]

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Zack, I will say it again, you are full of it when you say they break down often, FULL OF IT. They are driven into the ground by delivery companies and such. Get real. I try not to get mad a people that don't understand and have only been on this Earth for 16 years.

As for repairs, they are QUICKER, MUCH QUICKER because they know that truck makes you money. In and out with ANY problem that may come up through the years.


Oh, and as for turning radius versus fullsize trucks.....Wager away, they turn sharper. I have owned Ford/Chevy/Dodge. The Mits turns in nearly half the circle. Not to mention all the problems I have had.

You honestly have NO CLUE. You have cabover envy buddy. Don't get mad at me because I can afford them and a sweet sports car that will rip yours a new one!

Poor guy, you just don't get it.

Cabovers WILL be EVERYWHERE in this industry in a few more years. Hell, nearly every decent size company along the coasts run at least one and are phasing out their underpowered over priced pickups.

&lt;&lt;Don't Fear the Green!&gt;&gt;