Got laughed at for my bid!

[hus]

Ok so I've only been mowing, trimming, edging and blowing off concrete surfaces and I bid accordingly...mostly $30/hr for residential and the rate varies on commericial but usually $50/hr for small commericial. I got a call from a guy this morning about clearing off some land of his rental property he just purchased. I told him that I would go by and give him a free estimate. I get there and it's a duplex apartment building that has a very little front yard (which someone else is cutting), but this guy wants me for the backyard only. The backyard is on a huge slope. The yard is 65ft by 70ft and there is nothing back there that is shorter than 5ft tall. There is a huge pile of brush that looked like it had been sitting there for about 5 years. There was no clear area on the inside of this property. There were hundreds of beer bottles and coke cans scattered all over the place.

So I, being a solo lawn guy, took it upon myself to ask my 18 year brother, who just graduated high school, and a buddy of his if they wanted to make about $10/hr to help. And being as it is that they have just got back from the beach and have just been riding 4-wheelers all summer, they said sure.

So I called the guy, we met, and gave him an estimate of $750. I estimated the job to take 15 hours with three of us working it, and at $50/hr that equals $750. The guy literally laughed in my face and asked, "What in the hell are you gonna do for $750?" I explained it to him in detail and then he said, "Well honestly, I haven't been back there to look at it. I just purchased the property to make some money renting the apartments." I told him that he seriously needed to walk the property over. He then said, "Well, I think I can probably get a college kid to clean it up for about $8/hr." Then I laughed and told him that if he could do that then by all means go right ahead. He then said he may give me a call back if he couldn't find cheaper work. So to be polite, I told him that wasn't a problem at all and that since he was a first time customer I would discount it to $40/hr which would equal $600 for the entire job. He said thanks and then I left.

Am I being unreasonable or is he?

[Woody]

You shouldn't have said ANYTHING about your rate per hour/man-hour.

You shouldn't have offered a discount either.

Stick to your guns! It's YOU who will be the one doing the work! Will that lower price cover...

Stitches needed from unseen hazards, broken glass, etc.

A tetanus shot after getting cut on something.

Any of a million other things that can go wrong?

Personally, I have had people bite on prices that I had a hard time getting out of my mouth they were so high. I can recall 2 of them right off the bat. One of them coughed a bit, but I stuck to my guns and got the job. Another one told me 4 hours into an 8 hour job that I WAS TOO CHEAP! I about fell over! Needless to say, that one is now a customer for life.

Stick to your guns man. Your price may have been a little high, or may have been just right. Just because John Q. Public thinks it is too much doesn't mean that it is. I doubt that guy had a CLUE.

One other thing. When he said something about a college student for 8 bucks an hour, I would have smiled and said "Keep in mind if he is injured while doing this, your homeowners insurance will HAVE to cover ALL of his expenses, and then will likely drop you for hiring an uninsured contractor. Now, as you can see here (presenting my Statement of Finacial Liability), I am fully insured."

[Scaper-S2k]

Just curious, why would you lower your rate down $10 per hour so quickly?

[hus]

Woody, thanks for your input. It is much appreciated.

Scaper-S2K, honestly I don't know. Maybe becuase this was the first time I did an estimate on a clearing job. If it would've been just solo me out there cutting a commericial yard then I wouldn't have budge so easily. In my head I actually thought for a minute that it's just a clearing job and with 3 of us working it, $40/hr wasn't so bad for me. Like is said on this forum time and time again, it's all about being able to work the numbers and technically I had no clue if $50/hr would be fair for a one time clearing job as it would be for a monthly cutting. My bad....I'll learn from it as to not turn into a "scrub"

[Seascape]

Real Estate folks can be some of the worst bargain seekers youll find. Dont take him personal,,,,,,,,,,,, hes got a figure in his head more than likely he plans to see from that property this year,,,, and he dont care who goes hungry to make it happen. That means he has no interest in doing anything to that place that wont double his money in a few years.

HVAC, lawn care,plumbing, roofs ect ................ they cry like little girls and most will con,conive,lie,and shop til they drop before they pay 1 dime for 1 thing.

I have a rental and i have to call 5 places to get 1 to show up if its a new service. Because most contractors are on to this. I dont think i fall into this catagory and as far as i know everybody that works for me is content. Ive never tried to Jew a cost down,asked why that much ect.......... I may have asked if it can be done cheaper a time or 2,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but not at the expense of a contractor but materials. Its stressful just to locate good help on my rental,,, i can see it in theyre face almost everytime. Theyre leary of me before they even meet me. Always get scared to ask me to sign anything ect............... I go out of my way to comfort them by offering payment up front, or i ask them if they have something i need to sign before they get to it. It really sets them at ease and they work better. Ive never had any problem getting anyone to come back,,,,,,,,, even if i did ask for cheaper materials.

I am extremely leary of landlords myself. Most (not all) have been selfish and manipulative. I havent dealt with one in years except on theyre personal properties. I decline all offers on theyre investments,,,, except for 1 guy whom is AAA in class and far in few in the market. And we,ve had a few conversations along these lines. He knows the scoop to.

I dont have a great big problem with bringing a price down. I usually have a walkaway price in my head on anything i bid. If im comfortable with somebody ,,,,, i think i can trust them,,,,,,, or i just like them i will use it like a trump card before i walk away from theyre work. I had a guy earier this year ,, he caught me in a good mood. He was about my age living in a 400k house. Had a little daughter home with him,,, little BMW sitting in the drive,,,, seemed like a pretty straight up guy,,,, probally a little to straight up if you know what i mean. But you could tell he was just living the americam dream the best he could. And i could tell he didnt have alot of money to spend on his mulch job................... i could just tell. So i kinda bid on the low end trying to make it easier on him. Think i asked $850,,,,it was 4 yds of mulch but had some weeds and his beds needed bumped out pretty bad,,, few trees he wanted beds cut on them and suckers cut off,,,,,,,, just stupid crap. I thought he'd love $850 but the 1st word out of his mouth was "wow". I was kinda thrown back cause i really thought it was a deal. So i explained his site had a little detail in it and that id need one of my more detail oriented guys on it. That it would eat 2 guys basically a whole day said and done ,, that i know how to perform his job the way he wants ect..... He wouldnt come right out and disagree with me about any of that and kinda aknowledged i was right,,,,,,,,, i could tell he underestimated the work envolved. I pointed out a thing or 2 that he never thought of like "if i knock all those suckers out of that tree im gonna have to balance it back out on that side,,,,,,,,,,, its not just go in and snip out the suckersif you want it done right". Which i wont go through this with people a can tell are assholes. Well i could tell he just couldnt do the $850 so i asked him bluntly what he was thinking. What he honestly thought his bids were gonna look like. He said they talked about it and hoped they could get it done for $500. So i scratched 850 off my sheet and changed it to $500 signed it and handed him my clip board. He looked at me really funny and i told him sign it. He replied "well i dont wanna talk you down on your cost i think its just gonna be more expensive than we thought" "i dont expect you to take a loss" So i just told him i wont take a loss and id be happy to do the job and it was fine.I could tell he was uncomfortable about it as he signed. Later that day he called me and told me he had lunch with his wife and they were touched by my generosity. He asked if he couldpay me $500 that month and $350 the next month therefore giving me the $850 i asked originally. I told him absolutely. We performed his job,, he loved it. His wife was a little sweetheart i met her when i checked on the job that day. she didnt even wait for the invoice she came right out and gave me the check and pointed out the lemonaid she had sitting out for my guys and almost shoved it down my throat. Than i got the "are you sure next month is okay" speach. I told her pay the balance whenever they could. Just like clockwork i got the balance and a thank you card the next month like they told me.

Not saying theyll all be like that but theyre out there. The 1st thing you watch is people trying to minimize a job to get a cheaper price. Or they suggest shortcuts and minimize theyre desired level of work. Ya know give you that "it aint a golf course" speech. "All i want" ,,,"i just want" ect......... we've probally all heard it. Than you get there at 1:00 to check out your guys and ask why its taking so long. "well she made us go back around all the beds and take out another 2" on the edges" But when you bid it she didnt care if the beds got edged at all. The only reason you are edging is because you wont take a mulch job without edging because its tacky and unprofessional and you told her that. Ive seen it all!

[PNA]

I don't know if your price is fair (hours required) as I've not seen the place. But, in general, I do NOT lower my price just because they complain about it. I've done it in the past and 95% of the time I regreted it.
PNA

[Scaper-S2k]

Good reading Seascape. Some people really just don't know what things will cost. The more we do this line of work, the more we should be able to scope those better (and usually nicer) people out quickly.

I'm speaking of the good ones that really just have no clue, but do understand you are trying to run a biz. I've run into them in commercial work as well, but not as often.

[kiddinla]

I always under estimate older people and their negotiating skills. The other day i was blind sided. This guy was being real nice to me, and we talked for a while. He had me in a good spot, and asked "alright now, how much you gonna charge me". It wasn't so much the words, but the body language, the delivery and the previous conversation. He worked me good. I under bid and knew it. When i left, i had to laugh because he was so smooth, and then i got mad. I need lessons.

[hus]

Seascape, definitely a good read but $850 to $500 is one thing, even though it is a $350 hit, but this guy's figure in his head is around 80 to 90 bucks for what he thinks is a 10 hour job and he hasn't even went back there to look at his own property yet. $750 down to $400 is respectable (and I still wouldn't come close to doing this clearing for that) but down to $90, I just couldn't comprehend it. I guess that's another reason I knocked $10/hr off so quick.

Maybe he'll get it done cheap. Honestly, I'd rather not do too many clearings, especially like this one, but I will be more than happy to do free estimates on them all day long for the chance that someone is willing to pay the right price.

[lrb_1999]

I got blasted on a bid last week myself. It is a nursing home about 8 minutes from my house that my uncle had been doing up until April. He was charging $750 per month on a 12 month agreement. This included mulching ,weeding the flowerbeds, and trimming bushes twice a year. When his contract was up a guy came in and bid it at $375 per month for doing the same work so they took the cheaper guy and gave my uncle the boot. Well the guy did it for about 2 months or so and just quit showing up, finally figured out he was not making any money. They called me and I gave them a bid for $700 a month on 12 months. They told me real quick they had some others that gave them a price of $400 and $450 per month. Then she told me that I could re-bid if I wanted to. I declined and told her that was the price that I would do it for and just to keep my number for when these guys quit showing up also. Kinda crazy how cheap some people will go just to get an account

[scaglines]

I would have definately stuck to my guns on the price. Even if it is too high, it's your price. These real estate people are nasty, and he doesn't want to spend any more than he has to.

And I am so sick of hearing people tell me they can get college kids to do it for half the price. Then go f'ing call them!!!

And Woody, you freaking hit the nail on the head about the insurance. I honestly, would have mentioned that to him, and walked away. Then when he calls, tell him you have picked up too many accounts recently, and the price will be $1000.00.

[Seascape]

Seascape, definitely a good read but $850 to $500 is one thing, even though it is a $350 hit, but this guy's figure in his head is around 80 to 90 bucks for what he thinks is a 10 hour job

I wasnt trying to say that at all. 850-500 is coming down to far. I just had a burr up my ass when i did that.

In your situation,,, next time try flat rate quote. Under no circumstances give him an hrly rate.

Its obvious he already had in mind just how cheap he thought he could get it done,,,, he was just rolling the dice on you wondering if youd say a couple hundred bucks. Or something stupid like that.

More than likely what he was gonna do was let you take the job at $200,,,,,,,,,,, than haggle you about quality,quantity or something. Than give you partial payment and try to play it off along those lines. Than he's gonna start calling all the lawn boys until he finds the dumbest greenhorn he can and manipulate him to cut it 3 or 4 times for $15 until he goes out of business. Than hes gonna call another lawnboy and by that point it will get a prime sq ft market value bid because its been cut a few times,,,,,,,,,,,, so he'll pay an extra $5 per cut but only bi-weekly.

He wins,,,,,,,,,,,,, everybody else looses.

[Sammy]

They called me and I gave them a bid for $700 a month on 12 months. They told me real quick they had some others that gave them a price of $400 and $450 per month. Then she told me that I could re-bid if I wanted to.

I would have said "Okay, $720.00 a month ! .... LMAO

[MarkD715]

OK Seascape...write a book already!

[bblouie]

I have to agree on the real estate agents. I am batting 1.000 on cheap bastards. Heres a good one:

I am eating breakfast/lunch in my bank parking lot, waiting for the bank to open. A gentleman walks up to me and asks if I am taking on any new clients, I said yes. He introduces himself as an agent and hands me a card. He proceeds to inform me that he has several properties he would like "cleaned up" and asks if I can give him a quote. I said yes, I take down addresses, desired work and go look at the job sites. First one: desert landscaping, 25 shrubs to be trimmed, 6 trees (2 of which are leaning badly) to be trimmed, weeds everywhere, drip system missing emitters with 4 leaks. I tell him $500. I am looking at roughly 6 hours of time, misc. irrigation parts, 6 lodgepoles and dump fees. He tells me its too much. House is listed for $420,000

Next property: Gated community, 5000 sq ft house, 2 acre property. 26 mature citrus trees that haven't been fertilized or pruned in maybe 5 years (30-40% of the canopy is old dead branches). Orchard floor has weeds and bermuda grass all over growing at the height of 3-5 ft. He wants the trees trimmed and all weeds and grass removed. I tell him $1500 dollars. I am looking at roughly 20 hours of time and dump fees. He almosts chokes when I tell him. He tells me he needs to talk to the seller first. He calls back and says no way. BTW, the house is listed for $1.4 million dollars.

It's unbelievable how cheap and ignorant real estate people are. Is anyone going to spend 1.4 mil on a house that has a jungle in the backyard? He is going to make $50,000 in commission...why would he scoff at $1500? It's nuts. I have many more to tell, but you get the picture.

Steve