am i a low baller?

[safari lawn]

I dont' know why your saying its crap about not moving the truck. I didn't really imply it in my original post but my intent is to pick up yards in the small yard areas i'm already in.
EX: I have 3 in one sub priced $30 $30 $33.... I finish in less than an hour.....why not pick up more yards on same street even if I'm only charging $20.

Or even in new areas i'm not in as long as i pick up a couple it makes sense to me.

If 2 of these yards were "combined" my bid would be $40, so whats the difference?


I have no intention of being a mow only company. I'm not. I offer plenty of other services but am still not working 50 hours a week like I want. I completely understand that my time is worth more, but not if i'm i'm brining in zero when I could be brining in something.
Well i'm giving it a shot. I understand my numbers and will know very quickly if I screwed up in which case i'll raise till its right or they drop. Nothing to lose, I'm certainly not going to price so low that I lose money.

You can invest time and money. I've got plenty of time right now so i'm going to invest it even with smaller returns than normal.

That part I understand and did the same when I started, I weeded out the lower yards over time and replaced them with ones that would pay more, or where closer. The only word of caution I can suggest is be careful about different prices for similar yards, if the neighbor talks to another they may get upset about your charge then you may loose a few or have to lower prices, they do talk to each other.

I also sense a need of urgency in getting the yards all at once, if its financial then maybe you need to do something to change what your doing, maybe advertise for different services? to supplement until you get more customers? try Hauling, Pressure washing, portable car washing. try things that you can stop when you reach your goal of properties with out adverse effects.

[KAG]

I a pretty sure the lowest I've ever mowed for was $25 for a front only lawn. Usually I am in the $35-$40 range. I am working hard to branch out into many other areas also so I agree with the comments made about it. While large acreages is what I am trying to get more of for mowing.

Do not come go cheap. I heard a saying somewhere.....
At the end of the day you have two choices. You can go to bed Hungry and poor.....or TIRED, hungry and poor. Working for nothing sucks......

[MASTERMOWER]

WARNING: Neighbors talk. You can either use this to your advantage.....or not.

Trust me, I mow in several neighborhoods where I park the truck and mow several. I wouldn't dream of lowering my price to grab ahold of a few more lawns in these neighborhoods. If I began to offer different price structuring, I sure hope Bob and Mary don't start talking about their mowing prices! Bob will be left puzzled why he's paying $15 more than Mary and yet his lawn is the same size!!!

Have you asked your existing clients to refer you to others in the neighborhood? In one neighborhood, I started with one lawn. He recommended me to his neighbor......now I had two. Lady across the street wasn't happy with her LCO, next year had hers. Soon after, lady down the street didn't like her company either. Now I had four. Lady down the way got tired of mowing. Up to five. Original guy recommended me to other neighbor. That's that now? 6? Two new houses where built, both saw the quality I provided their neighbors with. Eight now....and soon after, another jumped on board. That's right, I'm talking 9 in one stop. I never dreamt of lowering my price to help attract more clients. Being reliable and professional is all you'll need.

Only you know what is best for yourself. Just consider all variables before you impliment anything.

[wormstyle]

The only word of caution I can suggest is be careful about different prices for similar yards, if the neighbor talks to another they may get upset about your charge then you may loose a few or have to lower prices, they do talk to each other.

I had definitly thought about that and couldn't come up with any real solid solution.

I'm just hoping they don't talk or understand the lower prices will rise eventually. I don't think it will be to big of a problem unless its right next door.... I talk to my neighbors on both sides of my house and straight across the street but 2 or 3 houses down from me nothing more than a hello. Hopefully i'm not just a mean neighboor and most people don't have to much conversation with neighbors a few houses down.

[clclawn]

Its not a matter of what your min. is, its what your profit is. I have a hood (one strees) with tiny yards, I charge 15-20 per. I have 11 in this hood, never move truck. We average about 90 per man hour.

This hood was my frist properties as a kid, so that is how i got them, I would not take them on now though. My point is don't lower your profit to get accounts, your minimum is a You know what will work for you but charging $15 for a $30 lawn is not the way to success.

[steve-o]

you are the one asking the question

I dont' know why your saying its crap about not moving the truck. I didn't really imply it in my original post but my intent is to pick up yards in the small yard areas i'm already in.
EX: I have 3 in one sub priced $30 $30 $33.... I finish in less than an hour.....why not pick up more yards on same street even if I'm only charging $20.

Or even in new areas i'm not in as long as i pick up a couple it makes sense to me.

If 2 of these yards were "combined" my bid would be $40, so whats the difference?


I have no intention of being a mow only company. I'm not. I offer plenty of other services but am still not working 50 hours a week like I want. I completely understand that my time is worth more, but not if i'm i'm brining in zero when I could be brining in something.

Well i'm giving it a shot. I understand my numbers and will know very quickly if I screwed up in which case i'll raise till its right or they drop. Nothing to lose, I'm certainly not going to price so low that I lose money.

You can invest time and money. I've got plenty of time right now so i'm going to invest it even with smaller returns than normal.

i was talking the truck thing cause that's what some preach. if you are charging 30,30, and 33, why would you want to come down? it's a hell of lot easier to start at the top vs lowballing and then coming up the ladder. bottom line is, it's your deal and only you know what you need to do. 50 hours. you can have it, not me.

steve

[TRANSMAN]

I skimmed through the advice

I currently mow 28 lawns in 2 days(13hrs), avg $38/lawn. I've always stuck to my min of $30/lawn no matter how small it is but am really considering going as low as $15-20 for small yards. In the past i've convinced myself it isn't worth it but i'm starting to think why not? I don't have another job and if I get one I'm sure it's going to be maybe $10/hr. So why not lower my prices and start mowing 4 days a week and raise/drop my low priced yards when i fill up with more expensive ones. Even if i go as low as $15 I can still gross $45/hr about $30 lower than my gross/hr now but it beats getting another ***** job.

I do mulch, hedging and some other work most of my current customers but even with that I'm only working 3 days a week. I feel like a bum.

Do you guys consider that low balling? I'm so use to the high profit accounts that I have now that it feels like i'd be a low baller.

Oh by small yards i mean 15-25 minutes on site. No more than 10 min driving.

But if your there already and the yard are across the street as long as your making money rather then walking away from it i would say do it and the heck with all the lowballer and scrub comments...

If you start it and find it ain't worth your time drop whatever isnt profitable but to turn down any work where your making money instead of going home and watching T.V is ridiculous...

If you had jobs with 500 sq feet that took 3 minutes to do with the weed eater i think it would be dumb to turn them away especially when your there anyway and go home to watch T.V....

Ultimately its up to you , you don't have to ask permission from people on the net , and there's an old saying a bird in hand is worth more then one flying aloft or something like that...

I`m sure whatever you make $$ wise while there anyway will probably pay for gas or dental visits for you the wife or your kids...

I have no idea what some of the professionals will do who wont drop a tailgate for less then $50 bucks when the time comes "which will be within a year or 2 ", and people start having those wires installed in their yards that allow the new mowers to hover around and cut the lawn needing nothing other then the homeowner to pull the hover mower out of the garage after a full charge and let it cut the lawns on their own...

I just saw 1 of these in action and the owner loves it and believes when the price goes down and they start real advertising most lawn company operators will be out of business....

And the 1 acre yard that i saw this thing hovering around looked immaculate as he throws it out there every 3 days and it keeps the yard constantly manicured...

Take the jobs and money while its still their for the taking because shortly a lot of the (die hard i wont drop a dime guys) because of the principle will be out of business....

My take is that in 5 yrs when auto mowers /hover mowers get on the market those who say don't work for less then $$$ whatever period ,and are to good will be begging to do anything and realize they have been replaced by modern technology....

People who drove horse drawn wagons probably never thought they could be replaced but then came the internal combustion engine , the car , and how many horse drawn wagons do you see anymore???

[MASTERMOWER]

I have no idea what some of the professionals will do who wont drop a tailgate for less then $50 bucks when the time comes "which will be within a year or 2 ", and people start having those wires installed in their yards that allow the new mowers to hover around and cut the lawn needing nothing other then the homeowner to pull the hover mower out of the garage after a full charge and let it cut the lawns on their own...

I dunno, but those who didn't diversify into other services just might find themselves floating down $h1+ creek in an old beaten up canoe.

PS: aren't many of those auto mowers restricted to smaller lawns? I know many of the ones out now are, though I'm sure they've (the engineers) have been busy adapting them for larger properties.

How about these? http://www.evatech.net/

Then again, someones gotta install and service these robotic mowers........

And it's not like everyone and their neighbor would buy these things within a few years anyhow, but realistically, I do see these sorta mowers as replacements for mow boys at some point in the future (after the Mexicans have taken over the mowing industry).

[TRANSMAN]

I also saw them on modern marvels

I dunno, but those who didn't diversify into other services just might find themselves floating down $h1+ creek in an old beaten up canoe.

PS: aren't many of those auto mowers restricted to smaller lawns? I know many of the ones out now are, though I'm sure they've (the engineers) have been busy adapting them for larger properties.

How about these? http://www.evatech.net/

Then again, someones gotta install and service these robotic mowers........

And it's not like everyone and their neighbor would buy these things within a few years anyhow, but realistically, I do see these sorta mowers as replacements for mow boys at some point in the future (after the Mexicans have taken over the mowing industry).

You know that show on channel 138 or whatever that shows different machines that have been made over the centuries..

Anyway they went through the whole evolution of the small engine , its use on everything from snow blower to lawn mowers and then showed how well the new breed of electric mower works...

They showed a big testing area where a few of these babies were just floating around continuously trimming the area and it looked pretty good..

I just realized though they didn't say if they had a hover trimmer/ weedwacker so i don't know about the edging and bush manicuring stuff , but i think between gas prices , people on the global warming kick ,noise and other reasons that there is a day of reckoning coming to those who hold steadfast on prices...

I`m not really an expert on this stuff (the business side of mowing) so i shouldn't have opened my mouth or posted up here anyway , but late last night i couldn't sleep and thought it was worth people chewing on ....

[safari lawn]

I think no matter what there will always be a need for Lawncare in our lifetime, until we go astro turf and silk trees, there will always be a need. I know people are even going back a step to the 1800's, Goats for lawns, Horse Drawn Plows. Gas may prevent us from doing our jobs costly but they will always need to be done.

[TRANSMAN]

My final point which was my first

I think no matter what there will always be a need for Lawncare in our lifetime, until we go astro turf and silk trees, there will always be a need. I know people are even going back a step to the 1800's, Goats for lawns, Horse Drawn Plows. Gas may prevent us from doing our jobs costly but they will always need to be done.

Your probably right but i think and may be wrong but i think it will be the guys who bend at least a little listen to the customer and are willing to take a price cut on an easy 5 minute job who will survive while the i wont drop my gate for under $50 crowd might find people saying take a hike...

I cant charge the same price to do a rebuild on a simple 3 speed auto as i might on a new 5 speed automatic tranny so im just saying if i had tried charging 1 price across the board and not using some personal judgement i wouldn't have stayed in business as i did....

I also do some small engine repair for friends but i wouldn't charge the same to swap out a 3.5 hp Briggs as i would a 17 hp kawi or a diesel sitting in a 350series ford super duty....

I knew a lot of auto mechanics with the i ain't gonna do it any cheaper attitude when they knew some particular customer couldn't afford what they quoted them period because the person was struggling period and they went out of business , but if i got some 18 yr old waitress who had 2 kids that needed her old Oldsmobile that barely ran and the transmission wouldn't move the car i would do the job / rebuild the trans with a cheap kit to get the car so she could get to work again and tune up the engine to boot if it was a slow day and i had no other jobs sitting on my lift and send her happily on her way...

It cost me XXXX amount of bucks each day whether i worked or not so if nothing big $$$$ came in i would work on anything even a lawnmower rather then watch TV and loose money for the day...

That's why i could retire at 39 i guess or i was just lucky and it was in the stars because no rich relatives left me a million dollars so i could be a lazy bum my whole life....

I guess everyone has to do what they think is right but personally i see to many guys hung up that people think lawn guys are uneducated unprofessional nothings and i think that insisting they have to get this or that per every hour or XXX $$$ to drop the gate actually costs them work money and jobs from word of mouth , but regardless i never thought about L.C operators that way or looked down at anyone who makes an honest buck working as long as they were willing to work....

The most depressing times i remember were the few days here and there when there was nothing to do and i felt crappy that i didn't make a dollar that day....

[steve-o]

i think you are off on this one tranny

to run a good business (at least me) i think you have to have a disiplined set of rules and stick by them. your price and methods are what they are. you either make it or you don't. i don't bend on pricing or my rules one bit and i don't see myself going anywhere but up, if you low-ball pricing, in my book i think you are setting yourself up for disaster. maybe it works fixing cars and stuff, but not in this business. did you ever have a lawn care business? you always have good post, but i totally disagree with you on this issue. you and yardrat need to kiss and makeup too.


steve

[TRANSMAN]

I`ll answer the important stuff

to run a good business (at least me) i think you have to have a disiplined set of rules and stick by them. your price and methods are what they are. you either make it or you don't. i don't bend on pricing or my rules one bit and i don't see myself going anywhere but up, if you low-ball pricing, in my book i think you are setting yourself up for disaster. maybe it works fixing cars and stuff, but not in this business. did you ever have a lawn care business? you always have good post, but i totally disagree with you on this issue. you and yardrat need to kiss and makeup too.


steve

Because there's a lot of questions there steve...

I did mowing as a kid way back and had about 30 yards or so that i cut in the neighborhood...

Basically i just ran into this forum by accident and only joined because there were a few guys asking questions of mechanical nature and i needed to be a member to post what i thought their problems were...

Just this past year i did pick up a L.C business that was already established from a guy who was on his way out with uncontrollable diabetes and had ankles that weighed about 200 pounds each.... Holding water so i think his heart became shot then the kidneys all related to the diabetes probably...

Anyway i got all his accounts which are clustered in a trailer park with 240 units and i take care of between 190-200 of them because some people decide the son in law will cut one week , or the Grass didn't grow enough , etc excuses , but this is just 1 of a few operations that keep my head above water so i don't worry about the ones who aren't every week....

It just doesn't bother me and i really don't get excited about those few but when the son in law wont show up and they ring me up looking for me to cut again i`ll still cut their grass when im over there because im cutting the lawn next door or across the street anyhow....

There 60 X 80 lots minus the double wides sitting on them plus the car ports and driveway so they take no time and i charge what the other guy did which was $20 a pop ....

Basically its more for fun , as i was out on the boat so much over the past 3-4 years that im actually tired of boating anymore...

Also you can research my posts and you will see i admitted from the beginning i was no expert about anything in the green industry.... If you find 3-4 posts over the past 3-4 yrs i`v been a member that are above the mechanical section i would be surprised and i generally just stay on mechanical questions or in the OFF TOPIC SECTION....

I don't give advice about fertilizers , pesticides or anything i havent a clue about because im not a bluffer and i`m not gonna make a fool of myself and get caught with my pants down....

T----

[spotremix]

I wouldn't drop my prices just so I could fill my schedule.

i would never drop my prices to fill my schedule although it does seem thats what would happen if you were mowing that cheap, you might even move beyond your schedule if you get enought clients.

Oh, and with regards to Sporties comments on a mow-only business. That's all fine and groovy. We've discussed this before. We all know your thoughts and you know mine. I'll add a side note though, I've never known a mow-only business to remain mow-only. Eventually they all branched out and left mowing to the way-side and focused on the more profitable work. I ain't saying this will happen to you...especially if you don't want it to.

I wish I could be Mow only and drop the Fall Cleanups, but dont think that would go over well with my Customers

I did it. No problems.

i don't do stricktly mowing, i just don't do landscaping. besides mowing i offer shrub pruning, spring clean-ups, and fall clean-ups.

i don't do mulch, i don't spread fert/weed apps, i don't do bed edging, etc. anything outside of what i listed in blue i don't do.

as for mm's comment (i know your not saying it will happen to me) about more profitabe work it all depends on how much of a motivator money is to you. i'll give you an example of how much of a motivator it is to me using made up numbers. if i was offered 2 diff. jobs and one paid $6 an hour and i would be happy doing it and the other job paid $20 an hour but i wouldn't really want to do that job but i could tolerate it, i'd be picking the $6 an hour job cause i'd rather do something i love than make money. doing what i love is more important to me than making money.

[spotremix]

I think no matter what there will always be a need for Lawncare in our lifetime, until we go astro turf and silk trees, there will always be a need. I know people are even going back a step to the 1800's, Goats for lawns, Horse Drawn Plows. Gas may prevent us from doing our jobs costly but they will always need to be done.

i'll disagree with all of that. if prices of food, gas, etc. go up enought people will cut back on luggeries and our business is a luggery to everyone except the elderly. to save money people will start washing there own cars, driving on vacations (or not going at all) instead of flying, using fans and open windows instead of air conditioning, and yes cutting there own grass and maintaining there own landscaping or they won't cut any more than have to and won't trim up and maintain anything.

the only people i see that have TRUE job security are doctors, nurses, and people that work at grocery stores and gas stations. everyone gets sick, everyone needs food and gas for there cars to get to work. people don't need to go to the car washes, or get there grass cut by a service like us.

don't get me wrong i'm not putting us lawn guys down i just happen to feel what we offer is not a NEED for anyone except handicap/elderly people.