Help this newbie make a big decision...

[MortNuke]

I happily found this forum last week and find it extremely valuable. Presently, I mow/blow/trim 2 yards (as needed) using a 42" Yard Machine and Toro recycler self-pace 22" - and will be moving in a more professional direction.

I plan to do one of the following two options next week when the eXmark 12 month same-as-cash financing becomes available:

1. Purchase a 36" eXmark W/B Metro with Kohler 15 Commander ($2195), Echo SRM-260 Trimmer, Echo BP blower, and use my RYOBI for a stick hard blade Edger. This all will be transported by my S-10 Pickup.

2. Purchase a 48" eXmark W/B for which I will need a new Trailor to transport along with the above equipment.

Please give feedback on the above options, and what else I might consider. You guys are great!

My plan is to do quality work and build up to about 10 yards, be legit, and perhaps grow with an employee then add a helper. I have a good full time job, which I plan to stay with. 38 yrs old, married, 2 kids.

Thanks in advance!

Mort

[MAD MOWERS]

Decision

Well my friend, if you will check other post on this page, I think you will find some great advice from Grassmaster on his start in this business.
With just two yards to mow you need to be sure that your regular job can cover the cost of this new equipment and by buying new equipment you dont put your self and family in a bind.
Now with your s-10 truck you can pull the 48" easy just stay with a 12' or under trailer. then put your profits back in on payments and business cost. But above all right now dig for new accounts.
This is our first full year in lawn care and this site has been a great help in making a person feel more secure in making bids, running the business and conducting a service that is in the public eye every time you cut a yard or trim a shrub. The folks on this site helped to keep me sane through out the winter by giving advice that I have put to use this year. so, keep reading, make your decision, and good luck to you!

[Alpine Naturescapes]

Since you already have a 42", I would go for the 36." It will fit through some gates the 48" won't. But if people don't fence where you live, get the 48" inch, and use the Yard Machine as a backup. The 36" will be better on berms too, which will help with a lot of commercials. My 2 cents.

[MortNuke]

Thank you for the feedback so far, guys.

Mad Mowers: Handling the costs will be ok. Also, my S-10 is a V-6 so it should pull ok. I only have a garage (no outdoor shed), so a trailor presents some storage challenges. But loading into the truck using ramps might get old quick. I will certainly take your advice and begin digging for new accounts ASAP!

Alpine Naturescapes: I don't really expect to transport the 42" Yard Machine, unless I get a trailor. (It's scary to load and unload using ramps). Even then, it's cut quality is not really up to par for what I want to deliver. There are fences where I live.

Mort

[dennis]

Good luck newbie!
How are you transporting the 42'' now?
You will definately need a more commercial grade mower if you plan on staying this business. Don't add any employees until you absolutely have to, because that will eat up your profit quicker than anything else.

[MortNuke]

Hi Dennis - thank you for the comments!

I presently only transport the 42" in my S-10 using ramps, but only for taking it in for maintenance. The one yard it mows regularly is near my house, I just drive it over there.

Getting one of the eXmarks (and commercial trimmer + blower) will be the "start" of my business. Other tips I will be following include: Starting a DBA account (today), locating a CPA, and as Mad Mowers suggests above, immediately start building more clients.

All feedback and comments are welcome. I want to start out right, and avoid common pitfalls - and this site is certainly making me feel a lot more confident to make this "LEAP".

Mort

[glassjoe]

i was in about the same situation you are. i wouldnt get an accountant or employess with only 2 yards. just open a business checking acocunt and keep track of every expense yourself. your going to be able to show a loss this year, especially since you have a full time job where taxes are taken out. there is no way your going to get in tax trouble this year. you earned all that money from a different job and taxes were taken out already. you then stuck that money into your business. why should you pay income tax on two lawns that technically (with all your other expenses) your losing money on.
if your doing like i did. you sticking a lot of your personal money into your business. truthfully i wouldnt even open a business account yet. just keep all your reciepts, \
get liabiltiy insurance, thats going to come out your pocket for a while, but one accident and your screwed.
as soon as i quit my full time job that is when i started keeping track of everything, pretty much all the money i made on my lawns before that i bought equipment, advertised ect. no money made. you'll know when its time to really get organized and hire someone. i have 50 accounts i do by myself. once in a while i have a friend help me for a day, even with 50 accounts i wouldnt consider a full time employee. next spring if i get 50 more accounts than i could use a full timer, but until then its all my money.

[spirkn]

Yeah i agree with all of these comments, and would like to add something. I don't know if your stuck on exmark because of the same as cash deal, or if you can look around. If you can look around look to a great dane dealer. They have this mower called the gateway, which you can tell by the name is made to go through fences. You can get a 48" or 52" and part of the deck folds up to 36" so that you can get through fences. If you have no choice but exmark, and there are alot of fences in your area i would say to go with the 36".

[MortNuke]

!

Guys, your input is extremely helpful. I have a lot to learn here...

glassjoe: Wait on the CPA? Here is my concern: I'll be putting a lot of personal money out this year and want to write off everything possible via the business account (which will show a lot of personal income input, and a relatively small amount of business income). One mentor suggests the CPA will keep me out of trouble, and perhaps even maximize my deductions. Regarding an employee, that would be once I can't cover the jobs myself while working full time. Jump back in and tell me what else you think, please.

Spirkn: I will look up info on the gateway (this is the first I've heard of it). I have a 22" Toro that could get past gates, if necessary. There are fewer fences/gates than in many areas. My target clients are in 4 developments located kinda rurally. Perhaps the efficiency of a 48" would outweigh the gate concern. Hard to say... I appreciate your taking the time to provide your experienced advice!

Mort

[glassjoe]

a cpa is a big expense, talk to several of them let them know your sitauation right now and they might even suggest you wait. then when its time to get one, you will have an idea on who gave you the best advice.
im just looking at it like this. i was a full time bricklayer. i bought a commercial mower to do my own lawn. it was cheaper to finance one than hire a service at 70 a month. i starting doing my neighbors lawns for cash. still im sticking all this money into more equipment. i got a couple more lawns but still kept my full time job. still technically not making money with these few lawns because trimmers blowers edgers are so expensive.
the only thing i did up until i quit my full time job is kept reciepts. i have an idea of how much money i took in on those febut i just put it right back into equipment.
the way i see it there is records of me paying income tax(as a bricklayer) up until i quit my job.
still from then on i wasnt that busy yet, but i kept ledgers, basically if your still a small company keep one a record of expenses in one book and in another book keep a record of all your income. i would then get an accountant to do my taxes. it would be cheaper than having one full time. its not like there is that much money changing hands.

dont get me wrong, if you have money saved up and can afford to do it right to start out with, it might save you headaches, but like a lot of people here (including myself) you financing a mower to start with. say you have two $75 accounts. an accountant costs you $150 a month. do you really want to be paying some one two lawns worth of your money to write stuff down that you would take you 10 minutes a night to write down?
it really all up to where your comfortable spending your money. inusrance and nice equipment was more important to me than an accountant.
if you can get someone to show you how to keep books for a small business, you would be better off. you would have a better handle on your business.
this is just my opinion, i to am fairly new to this, but not that new. all these problems are the same things i was dealing with a couple of years ago. im just letting you know how i did things it seems to be working out fine for me now.

[Alpine Naturescapes]

Mort,
I'm with Joe. You don't need an accountant. You will spend more than you save. When its time to do taxes, you can use H&R Block or Jackson Hewitt, and they should make sure you get your deductions. Some things though until then. Keep separate receipts for your mower gas. The taxes you pay on this gas is refundable to you as an off-road agricultural credit - Usually federal and state. Also keep a written record of your daily mileage for ANYTHING related to your mowing business: these miles are deductible & you will probably be better off using them than actual expenses. Any major expenses such as a trailer(highly recommeded) can be fully depreciated in the year of purchase if this helps your taxes. Same for mower.

Can't hardly go wrong with the 48" Exmark - it's one of the best, but fork the extra cash for the hydro. I personally would get the biggest engine and a mulching kit for it.

I WOULD get a business account after you get your DBA. It costs almost nothing at some banks. I pay nothing at my bank as long as I keep $100 balance. I think it makes you much more professional, and you will appear as such to any prospective commercial accounts.
Hope this helps:-)

[MortNuke]

(I was putting out flyers after work today, and got pointed to a nice older couple needing lawn service. The dilemma is that the previous person is moving away, but was mow/blow/edging their full acre yard for $30 as needed! Holy crap, I don't see doing it profitably for less than $45. I think they'll go $40...maybe I better bid that just to practice my skillz, eh? Opinions?).

You guys are very convincing - your reasoning makes a lot of sense to me regarding not using the CPA at this time. So, it sounds like I should set up the DBA account and just closely monitor receipts and mileage.

I've 90% decided to get a 12' trailor and go with the 48" gear driven eXmark. The latest "Option" I have regarding mowers, is to pay a bit more (ick!) and upgrade to the eXmark HP 48" (Kawasaki 17 motor vs. Kohler, ECS, and adds a full-floating deck). This would be nice, but stretching my pucker factor a bit.

You all are really making me feel like I am moving in the right direction. Folks offering support and pointing out mistakes...really good of you. Again, thanks.

While I'm abusing ya...any thoughts on the bid question at the top?

Mort

[Ben Wilton]

I'm going to ask a stupid question, what is a DBA?

[Phil Nilsson]

DBA - Doing Business As

[glassjoe]

i was just at an acre yard. the guy said he had an unreliable guy doing it for 45 a cut and the guys doing it now were doing it for 75, i usually mowing (not landscaping) jobs same day on site, as everyone else probably does, but i had to tell him i would need a little time to bid this one. the things i'm taking into consideration and what you might be thinking about are this.
1. i know he is not going to pay over $75, this includes edging trimming blowing. so is it worth my time.
2. do i really want to be tied up on this lawn for that many hours in a day. would it be a better use of time if i focused my attention on getting more smaller lawns in the same neighborhood.

I just really dont know what to do on this one. i dont need the income on this lawn that bad, although i hate to turn it down. an acre is a lot of land to mow, espeically since i am basically set up perfect for smaller lots in subdivisions. any opinions anyone could give me on this would be appreciated.
thanks.