I'm through with churches and wealthy clients!

[PearceTurf]

I know that some of you will tell me I'm crazy, but:

There are many churches in my area and I have been to visit them, try to get in good with the right people, but my bids are way off. I'm just in my first year and my bids are quite reasonable, but most have church members that do it for next to nothing. Perhaps I am missing something, but it has not been worth it to me so far to keep knocking on their doors.

I have had more success with referrals than cold calling. When I first started out, I convinced myself that I would do "upscale" neighborhoods and stay away from conventional projects. That was a mistake, at least in my experience. So called "wealthy clients" (outside of senior citizens) are the biggest whiners and the Last to pay. They treat me like a servant and withhold payment to either teach me a lesson or just to prove that "they are better than me (the hired help)". Like I said, some of you may have had great success with these categories, but for me, I am going to concentrate on real people with real needs, give them a real bid and collect a real check. If I am doing something wrong, please advise and tell me how to overcome this problem. Otherwise, I will stick to the middle class customer and quit trying to bid against the church member that "tithes" with his lawnmower. If I sound frustrated, I am. I know there is a better way to handle this, but one more phone call to that Lexus driving prick will be my last.

[Seascape]

Ya , we can tell you are having a hard time. I remember days early on that i got just down right angry w/ the world because i felt i was getting jerked around. And your right,,, the wealthy seem to be the toughest to get along with sometimes. See them like a dog, If they detect any fear or nervousness from you some will play it to the 9 yd line. If your new and vulnerable the smart ones will pick up on this. as far as churches ,ive had the same results. I bid one this year that called me. It was at least a 250 cut. They got a bid for $60 !! I told him straight up to sign it ! Told him id be a good sport and do it for 175 but that was as far as i could go. So dont take anything like this personal. You have to get acustumed to dealing with these issues. They wont go away and as soon as you think they did one of these people will call you. I focus mostly on wealthy areas. Alot of residential. I am about 75% res and 25% commercial. The commercial end i avoid and i have a guy that works for me deal mostly w/ these accounts. I do much better w/ the residential arena. I try to match the person i deal with. If i come accross a retired surgeon i put on my most formal show. If i run accross a stock broker that MIGHT be my age and is living in a million dollar home i immediately try to see how ****y he is. If he is ****y i get ****y. I just play right along w/ him. Than you have your laid back wealthy. They just want it straight! They dont jew your prices, question your methods,or throw change ups on you. This type is the quickest to fire you. The ****y ones will keep you because they have finally found someone they can kick around. Another problem i have around here is people that have been burned by other LCOs . We have about 20 million little dinky companies come and go every year. They make it hard on me sometimes. I seldom get the benifit of the doubt. I usually have to prove we arent like that company they used last year. If your doing cold calls than you need to put on a bullet proof vest. This could be 90% of your aggrivation. We can run ads in the suburban papers fo $20 a week, and i have an ad that i run in the spring for $500 amonth that is a bid 5" ad. Havent done flyers for a few years. But they are as effective and better than an ad if you want to target particular work. I do no cold calls or visits anymore. Its all referal or paper ad calls. As far as getting paid,, commercial takes typically 30 days. More usually. I used to have 13 kinder cares that took 6 months to get paid sometimes. Hell auto zone went bankrupt on me in 97 . Hung me out to dry w/ a $1400 bill. Now they have a store on the other end of town.Just went up about 6 months ago. Residentials shouldnt be that hard to get paid but you do sometimes have to shove the invoice directly in theyre face and them to take care of it. I only have a few that will ask for the invoice. I have one guy that comes out sarching for it. I just put it on top of my clip board and he gets in my truck sits in the seat and writes check than he clips it on the clip board. These type are rare. If you have people making you feel you dont have aright to get paid yet than thats harder to call. This is when you have everything in writing. When the specs are met you get paid. If they are throwing change ups at you stop them on the very first one. If they learn they can get them by tou they will throw them all the time. Honestly i have better luck when being a little **** than anything. For some reason it works. Im pleasant and nice but i do put on a **** attitude. People know right away not to play games. I dont cheat,rip off,lye or deceive my people but i am slightly a ****. Everyone that knows me is used to it. But to my knowledge nobaody hates me for it. Even scott on this board called me ****y. He was right on. Its from being in this business. You are forming your hard shell. Soon you will be able to fend yourself young man !!! Thats not a punt just a way to try to make you understand what im trying to say. Just hang in there. It always gets better. The first few yrs are the hardest and you are not seeing anything that none of us havent. Just keep grinding man,, you get it.
mike

[mikeslawnservice]

PeaceTurf,

I am in a big city and most of the homes are very very small. Most are rowhomes. I can make more in an hour doing rowhomes than I can doing any large property.

I had a thread going on here a few months ago and it caused quite a stir. I can charge $10 to cut a small front yard and come out way ahead of any lco in the burbs. Wanna know how. GROUPING. Line up 8, 9, 10 homes on the same block. I can make $100 in one hour doing it this way.

The problem I have is the opposite of yours. The less they pay, the more they complain. The more they pay, the less they complain.

For instance: On one block I have 9 lawns. 6 of them I bought off of a jackass guy who used to cut them and way underbid.
The rest I got on my own and from referrals.
The six are between $8 and $9 a pop. His price.
The other 3 are $15 a pop. My price!!!

I just tell the customers not to talk price with the neighbors, because they are getting a special deal.


NONE of the 3 complain. EVER!!!!
The other 6 whine and b#tch ALWAYS!!!!

By the way, those 9 lawns take me 50 min. to do and I get $97!!
I do these all by my lonesome!


Just ask Mattslandscapin. He'll tell you how it is here in the city.


By the way PeaceTurf,
Try not to get too upset about the church thing.
Can you blame them wanting to get something for nothing.

Try asking the customers that you do have to refer you to others. Tell them for every referral that signs an agreement or agrees to a certain # of cuts, you will take 20% off one cut. If they get you 5 new customers then you give them a free cut.

Incentives and coupons work great.

Mike

[Woody]

PearceTurf:

Listen to what Seascape has to say. It can get real frustrating. I had a guy think he wasn't going to pay me the agreed upon price for a mulch job earlier this year. I'm glad he did, because I am enough of a hothead to have blown it all over his yard with my RedMax 7001! Sometimes you have to be a prick.

I can already see the first person deciding not to pay in full for leaf removal, because I WILL blow every last one of them back into their yard! Of course, I will try to reason with them first, but if they take that "F-you" attitude with me, they had better expect to have a yard full of leaves.

And to think that I actually have letters from the public about what a "nice guy" I am, from back in my cable television days!


Woody

[mikeslawnservice]

Seascape,

You must have been writing that the same time I did mine.

[PearceTurf]

Woody, the Redmax guy

I knew you would have to say something about Redmax. I was already convinced before your post. I have a husq trimmer now, but hate my Echo edger and blower. Next spring is the season for Redmax, a product that can't be matched. I learned the hard way this year, but next spring?....... 7001 is not out of my price range!

[maple city]

PearceTurf:

I wouldn't even consider mowing a church becuase of the problems you have encountered. We do plow a church for a good price. I guess none of the church members have a plow, or I probably would lose that account. Don't take it personal when you don't get these accounts when you bid them.

As far as wealthy customers. I have had problems with all types of customers. I'm so lucky to have a really good bunch right now. I think that you may want to focus on the upper middle class areas where the people have nice homes, but both husband and wife are working full time. Blanket these areas with fliers in the spring and you'll probably pick up some accounts.

Good Luck!

[ccwmlw]

I have had no luck with churches except the ones that I know people at. I do not even fool with them any more. If they want something they come ask me.

[CCLS]

Try property managers, realty companies or condo associations. These tend to be the best source of business and referrals. I would say that over 50% of my work comes from these three places. I like dealing with one person for multiple jobs. Works a heck of a lot easier than dealing with multiple customers. Try to grow relationships with the people you work with. I have lunch every week with a couple realtors and property managers that my company does work for. I know them so well, that they will just give me addresses and tell me to bill them for the work because they trust me. Look at what I am saying, 50% of my work from less than 10% of the people that I deal with. Much better than 50% of my work from 50% of the people I deal with. As far as churches go, they are usually on a budget and look for the cheapest job. What you can do is give them $300 cut for cost and deduct the difference as a charitable donation on your taxes.

[Mattitude]

CCLS

How busy or often can you work for realty companies. I am putting together some ideas to present two of the larger ones in my area.

Was just concerned how sporatic the work would be?

[Vesta]

If you did a church for a few bucks and took the hit you may be able to ask them to put a large ad in the hand out they give at the beginning of the surmen. That means the people that tend the church would think the church endorses you and even say it in the ad.

[odin]

A good god fearing church tryed beating me out of 2500 bucks.

Peacher told me i should donate it because they was haveing bad times.

Well i told him if they had such bad times why didnt he sell that big mercedes he was driveing.

Sent court papers this week.

[Bryan]

I didn't have time to read all the post but I do know that most Churchs that have an acre or less will always find someone to do it. I have one church that pays well but have about an acre. I have another chruch that pays well but only for snow plowing, they have about a half acre of grass. They used to have a member plow but he kept knocking over the sprinkler heads and putting snow where it didnt belong.

As far as the rich goes, I got stiffed for 200 from one guy cuz I dropped him and he didnt like it. The reason I dropped him was because he was such a whinner. Well he now has my name on his credit report as a collection, which if you don't use a colletion agency I highly suggest you get one.

Here is the one I use www.madagency.com and its all done on-line.

O.k. rich Part 2: I have a few other rich people I service and never see them or here a complaint they are usually to busy making money. I do have one that pays slow because he does all his bills once per month at a certain time and is always a month behind with my billing cycle. One time in the begining I sent him a second bill thinking he did not get the first and he wrote one check for both. I called him and explained that he paid twice, his response was sorry for making you wait so long your doing a great job and just keep it. So you just have to find the right ones. Money changes some people but not all. I've gotten the shaft from middle class too.

I will have to admit that 90% of my work now is commercial but it takes time to get those contracts. I have never had a problem getting paid with them yet. The only ones I've heard of that are bad are the managment companys.

Hope this helps.

[CCLS]

Originally posted by Mattitude
CCLS

How busy or often can you work for realty companies. I am putting together some ideas to present two of the larger ones in my area.

Was just concerned how sporatic the work would be?

I have some houses that I do every week until they are sold. I have some jobs that are complete renovation (pruning, mowing, edging, brush removal, ect). These jobs are one time shots and it varies week to week on what I get. I always have something new. You just have to be prepaired for a lot of work one week and a little the next. What I do is have my weekly service customers monday-friday with thursday off. This way I can fit in one time jobs like clean-ups, landscaping, pruning ect without throwing my schedule off.
Try to get to know the head dog if you can. This way you don't have 20 different agents to deal with. Try to sell them on a package deal. The realtors that I work with know what it is going to cost to have the job done even before they ask me, because I have done enough work for them in the past. Most realtors are flexable and will allow you to schedule their work in. They just don't want to wait two weeks for a lawn mowed. I would definately recommend getting in with a realtor, property manager or developer.

[Jack D.]

I will not accept payment for Church Mowing for you are servicing the Lord's turf. Do you believe God would charge you to frolic with virgins in his Heavenly House?

Be honored to be cutting God's Lawns & stop in for a free confession if you feel the evil desire for monetary gain.