Time for another fertilization calibration quiz

[lclandscapes]

Let's say your a successful, charming, well-heeled, handsome, experienced grounds maintenance contractor with a dynamic personality much like myself.

And that you had the best ride on sprayer spreader that money can't buy much like the one pictured below:



Or a common Lesco push spreader if you need the exercise.

By using a double overlap spreading technique (aka throwing the material to the previous wheel mark) and using Lesco spreadable granular urea using the calibration setting of guage #12 using the non Florida label 001638.PDF which is accessible at the upper right hand corner of this web page:

http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=001638

How many actual pounds of nitrogen per 1000 square foot of turfgrass would you be applying at the following ground speeds?:

1.9 mph
3.0 mph
3.9 mph
4.5 mph

Bonus question:

What guage setting would you use at each of the above speeds to obtain a rate of one pound of actual nitrogen per 1000 square foot of turfgrass?

PS Mr. Ric would you please hold off on giving your answer for a few days to see if we have any real applicators out there in internet land.

What is your width of throw?

[lorenzo piedra]

What is your width of throw?

That fact would just add confusion to the quiz.

With the information you have already been given the equation is already in your hands.

One of the application rates for one of the production speeds is given.

Anyone who is an actual applicator should have this knowledge.

All the other speeds/rates of application can be figured out with simple algebra.

Anyone care to step up to the plate and take a swing?

Or are you satisfied with your job as a bat boy?

[timturf]

I thought you bought some fert, look for the spreader setting on bag, set spreader, pour in fert, and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!11

All this other stuff is too difficult!

[lorenzo piedra]

I thought you bought some fert, look for the spreader setting on bag, set spreader, pour in fert, and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!11

All this other stuff is too difficult!

Bs in Plant and Soil Science
30 yrs exp., 20 as GC superintendent

When you work for wages for such a long period of time I can see that one can get accustomed to an Epicurean lifestyle.

And thus forget/forgo the knowledge one must constantly use to survive as an independent businessman in highly competitive situations where the ability to increase profits while still offering an attractive pricing structure to the client is determined by being able to precisely control material costs while at the same time maximizing production rates.

[theweedman]

to late for me.

Let's hope some pupil will be able to give ANY answer for we would not want the entire class to become TGCL hose dragging lawn jockeys.

Sometimes we have "drift" from the original topic due to all the unsolicited static.

[Ric]

to late for me.

Weedman

Others have used TrueGreen as a stepping stone to better things. Hotanta is a booming market place and TrueGreen is the worst company in the world to work for. Don't complain, DO SOMETHING.

[bobkessler]

Bob Kessler

Let's say your a successful, charming, well-heeled, handsome, experienced grounds maintenance contractor with a dynamic personality much like myself.

And that you had the best ride on sprayer spreader that money can't buy much like the one pictured below:



Or a common Lesco push spreader if you need the exercise.

By using a double overlap spreading technique (aka throwing the material to the previous wheel mark) and using Lesco spreadable granular urea using the calibration setting of guage #12 using the non Florida label 001638.PDF which is accessible at the upper right hand corner of this web page:

http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=001638

How many actual pounds of nitrogen per 1000 square foot of turfgrass would you be applying at the following ground speeds?:

1.9 mph
3.0 mph
3.9 mph
4.5 mph

Bonus question:

What guage setting would you use at each of the above speeds to obtain a rate of one pound of actual nitrogen per 1000 square foot of turfgrass?

PS Mr. Ric would you please hold off on giving your answer for a few days to see if we have any real applicators out there in internet land.

Who cares,
In the first place the Lesco gauges are not accurate since the throws and knife opening are incapable of "squeeze". (a mechanical term relating to a point where all cams, levers, moving points, etc. are at an exact mechanical point) Think top dead center of the #1 cylinder of an internal combustion engine.
Add in the fact that you are double overlaping and calibration becomes futile.
Did I mention the fact that no treatment areas are in 1,000 sq. ft. sections!
So the Scotts mantra of 1 lb. of N per 1,000 sq. ft. that we have all so dutifully followed for 25 years becomes a guestimate at best.
Oh, one other tiny, tasty, tidbit. Just how uniform are those prills of N?
Ponder that!
Good thing you're so handsome. Maybe sub-out the fertilizing.

[theweedman]

i'm doing something, it won't be long. it will all be over REAL soon

Weedman

Others have used TrueGreen as a stepping stone to better things. Hotanta is a booming market place and TrueGreen is the worst company in the world to work for. Don't complain, DO SOMETHING.

[lorenzo piedra]

Who cares,

One would think that if you are appointed to the Florida Research and Advisory Committee for Pest Control you would not have such a caviler attitude when it comes protection of YOUR environment but again I always need to remind myself of the nonchalant attitudes of Southern folk.

Let's face it since 90% of the fertilizer you apply leach out of your sand based soil and into the ground water (where you get your drinking water) and the most important thing in your world is that Mr. Daddy Warbucks (a rich retired New Yorker) St. Augustine turf is nice and green and pest free 12 months per year much like the bluegrass on his Long Island estate.

When you are applying material to 500,000 square feet of turf in ONE day (not one round) one needs to have precise application equipment. By understanding the math involved in calibrating equipment I have been able to have 95% accuracy with many of my applications.

To put what 95% accuracy is to the innumerate a simple example would be when applying to 500k square feet of turf that one would be one bag (46-0-0) over or under for the entire application.

So in conclusion can you Mr. Kessler answer ANY of the questions in my original message?

[bobkessler]

Bob Kessler

One would think that if you are appointed to the Florida Research and Advisory Committee for Pest Control you would not have such a caviler attitude when it comes protection of YOUR environment but again I always need to remind myself of the nonchalant attitudes of Southern folk.

Let's face it since 90% of the fertilizer you apply leach out of your sand based soil and into the ground water (where you get your drinking water) and the most important thing in your world is that Mr. Daddy Warbucks (a rich retired New Yorker) St. Augustine turf is nice and green and pest free 12 months per year much like the bluegrass on his Long Island estate.

When you are applying material to 500,000 square feet of turf in ONE day (not one round) one needs to have precise application equipment. By understanding the math involved in calibrating equipment I have been able to have 95% accuracy with many of my applications.

To put what 95% accuracy is to the innumerate a simple example would be when applying to 500k square feet of turf that one would be one bag (46-0-0) over or under for the entire application.

So in conclusion can you Mr. Kessler answer ANY of the questions in my original message?

Wow, a little on the defensive there.
Look I'm glad you're one of the good guys like the rest of us that want to be professional at all levels. You have proved that to me. My point is I continually rail on about some of the myths and bad advice passed on to us by early industry trainers. Not only can you not achieve anything close to 95% accuracy with a mechanical rotary spreader in relation to material applied, it may not be as necessary as we were lead to believe. Leaching of pesticides and fertilizers through turfgrass has been debunked for years. Still, it persists as if it were a fact. It is now thought that much of the algae bloom in canals, lakes, and rivers related to nitrates is due to runoff rather than leaching. They're still testing.

OK with that said the true way to spreader calibration is by running your mechanical spreader over a catch device such as a tarp that is a known size, then weighing the applied material.
If you're looking to apply 1 pound of N out of a 50 lb. bag of 16-4-8 ......

16% X 50 = 8 lb. of N contained in the bag (theoretically)
This bag should then feed 8,000 sq. ft.
50/8 = 6.25 lb. of fertilizer you wish to apply per 1,000 in order to achieve your goal

Again there are so many other factors that confound accurate calibration. Since our goal is to minimize off target contamination how would you consider the different types of N? All fertilizers contain both soluble and insoluble Ns with diffrerent leach values. Some are not actually pellets at all but included as a dust that easily drifts off target.
Now......would you like to discuss the impact of mass/void areas in the landscape when it comes to chemical applications?

[Ric]

It is now thought that much of the algae bloom in canals, lakes, and rivers related to nitrates is due to runoff rather than leaching.

BoB

Question Sir. I was under the impression it was Phosphates the were causing the Algae Blooms. Yes I will agree Nitrates add excessive plant growth in aquatic situations from run off. However Nitrate in the soil and water are general used up by Microbial activity.

Now there are a few other things I would like to question also. However I don't have the time right now. I must get back to work. Maybe later tonight.

[timturf]

Yes,
lorenzo piedra, spreader calibration is very important for the evironment, turfgrass and the economics of your business!

We all must be reponsible and know exactly how much material per 1000 we are applying!!!!!!!!!!

[lorenzo piedra]

Not only can you not achieve anything close to 95% accuracy with a mechanical rotary spreader in relation to material applied, it may not be as necessary as we were lead to believe.

So you are calling me a liar? I ACTUALLY did this in the field three weeks ago on a 500k sq ft site. With my calibration techniques I made just one pass and had one bag left over.

Have you ever heard of the term IPM?

It means I Pay for Materials!!!

If you're looking to apply 1 pound of N out of a 50 lb. bag of 16-4-8 ......
16% X 50 = 8 lb. of N contained in the bag (theoretically)
This bag should then feed 8,000 sq. ft.
50/8 = 6.25 lb. of fertilizer you wish to apply per 1,000 in order to achieve your goal

Quit the diversionary BS and give us an answer to at least part one of my original question.

All fertilizers contain both soluble and insoluble Ns with diffrerent leach values.

Read the label of the label of fertilizer in the URL link provided my original message that started this thread and then tell me how much of a percentage of insoluble N it contains.

Now......would you like to discuss the impact of mass/void areas in the landscape when it comes to chemical applications?

If you would like to start a new thread your more than welcome.

And to all those playing along at home here is another clue for all the dogs that can't hunt:

http://www.lesco.com/lescodirect/content/cache/Unity/ProductCatalog/Files/PartsSchematic/051022R011.pdf

[Ric]

PS Mr. Ric would you please hold off on giving your answer for a few days to see if we have any real applicators out there in internet land.

Professor Stone

I will answer the Bonus Question or give the reason why it can not be actually be answered. But only after someone else answers the First question.

How Mass and Void areas in the landscape are in direct Proportion to prill size. less mass = less void space. Now For the unwashed masses this might be better explained as the coverage of 50lbs of Basketballs to be placed evenly on a given area. And the coverage of 50lbs of Golf Balls being placed evenly over the same area. There are a lot more Golf Balls in 50 lbs than Basket balls.

As to the soluble and insoluble N in 46-0-0 soluble fertilizer used by liquid spray companies. It is 100% soluble N. However in order for the plant to up take this soluble Urea it must have microbial activity. I have not studied 46-0-0 spreadable. But I do see from the label that is has a larger prill size.

Now in the interest of Learning something, I have issue with both your's and Mr Kessler's posts. I am not saying either of you are wrong. I only have question or facts that differ from your statements.

It would be nice to have an actual intellectual Thread here at Lawnservice. Scaling Fish gets old.

[Woody]

When it comes to a real world application, the technique employed by Mr. Kessler will give you an ACTUAL amount thrown by the spreader. Kaiser Stone's method will give you an answer that is THEORETICAL, and its accuracy can only be tested in the real world. While Kaiser Stone may have achieved a high degree of accuracy in his prediction, nothing beats a real world measurement.

Calibration="this is how much we WANT it to throw"

Measurement="this is how much it DID throw"

Woody