Hydroponics....Everything You Need To Know!

[Dr.Bizzaro]

This forum has several hydro growers and this would be a GREAT thread to share knowledge. It's a FANTASTIC way to grow your own CLEAN food and an enjoyable hobby. THIS is where to post on HYDROPONICS

[Ric]

GM

No other forum has a Hydroponic section.

Bizzaro

I see wick systems as a modified Hydroponic system that might be the easiest to start with and the Bubbler's as the easiest full hydroponic system as well as the least expensive to start with. Since you are more experience than me please add your input on the simplest and least expensive way to get started.

Maybe we can get some others to start hobby gardens and create some real interest in Hydroponics.

[hardboiled]

These recent posts have certainly got me interested. I'll tune in and learn what I can.

[Dr.Bizzaro]

ok...

my set up is 2 rooms, with 4 5x5 trays in each room, there is a 50 gallon resie for 2 trays, 100 gallons of liquid for 4 trays....I run 5 lamps for 4 trays...the tables my trays ride on are 3" from the floor, keeps it cooler...I have run ventilation from a fresh air source through each of the rooms and set up an exit also...air flow is critical....

In my trays I grow in rockwool and use perilite in the trays, about 3" deep...keeps the roots safe.

I grow all my vegatables and have some for friends as well....

I monitor my PH and PPm's daily, and I cycle my crops like this:

I fert via plant cycles.....I'll run one resie of product through, topping with fresh water and adjusting ph daily....then I pump it out and run fresh water in for a week....
a danger in hydro is urea salts will build up in the rockwool, so I flush a tub of clean water, you'd be suprised that a 0 ppm resie will shoot up to 700 ppm's after a cycle....so I take care to flush the salts
I also use H2O2 daily.....about 1 mil/liter to a gallon of 32%......I do this with fluid topping....
Other than that, it's easy....just watch it grow! BTW- one CAN overwater with hydro....sounds silly but true, be careful.....
After a harvest I run BLEACH through my system for several days.....

This hobby rules, as one can grow whatever they want.....and a veggie guy like me saves allot of $$$$$, and has what he needs at his hands!

Cool Huh?



WOODY's raft system sounds real cheap to start, and to dig the pool into the ground and sandbag it would keep the temp of the fluid down!

[hardboiled]

Thanks for the info, I'll stop in the brew and grow in the area and see about getting set up. I'm glad I can rely on all the experience here to help me get started.

Is the rockwool close to what rockwool insulation is?

Sure is cool. The cost of staying healthy these days is killer. Produce prices are through the roof while quality is in the gutter.

Another question. I keep a healthy compost pile going all the time. Can you use compost tea in the resies?

[Ric]

Another question. I keep a healthy compost pile going all the time. Can you use compost tea in the resies?

Hardboiled

I don't know for sure so anything I say may be wrong. However I believe the theory behind Hydroponics is precise controlled nutrient flow to the plant. Therefore compost or texas tea as it is called, would not work due to its lack of control. I am not saying organic material in general can not be used, only that it must be strictly graded for properties in it. Since salt build up in the resies is a problem, maybe organic is a solution. In the book I am reading only synthetic nutrients are list. However that book as stated before is 27 years old and technology has changed.

[Woody]

Hardboiled:

It's not close to rockwool insulation, it IS rockwool insulation. Molten basalt is streamed onto a spinning disk, which throws off fibers. Rockwool. When used as insulation, it is normally blown in as a bunch of small ball-like objects. When used for growing, it is in sheets, or in pre-formed cubes, complete with little "seed holder" indentations.

As for "compost tea", I'm sure you could use it. Ideally one would have it analysed initially, because the quickest way to kill your crops is to have your levels of micronutrients too excessive. To add too much of a micronutrient will affect different plants differently. Some will handle it no problem, and others will just wilt right over dead in no time. So, after analysis, one would have a known quantity (for that batch of compost tea) and would be able to use it. But, to use anything other than pure chemicals also invites other problems, such as fusarium or verticillium. Verticillium, present in nearly all soils in the northeast, will attack over 200 different plants. It is a nasty little fungus, and can remain dormant in the soil for several years. It is the scourge of the hydroponic grower. Personally, to avoid such headaches (as much as possible anyway), I would only used pure chemicals from a trusted source.

Keep in mind that with hydroponics, our growing medium is no longer a soil solution, and thus, "organic" methods of farming become moot. The bacteria and microorganisms that break down organic matter into chemicals that the plant can uptake are NOT present in a hydroponic growing medium, so we must provide the nutrients in a "ready to use" form. The benefits to doing so is that we have strict control over the micro and macro nutrients, they are directly available, and we no longer have to deal with water excess/water deficiency cycles. We can keep all of these things in a very ideal range. We can also keep oxygen levels at the root system very high, which leads to increased plant vigor and growth. Plants NEED oxygen at the roots, and this is why they will eventually "drown" if just stuck into a hydroponic solution with no regards to oxygen levels.

Solution temperature, as pointed out by Bizzaro Gee Vee, is critical as well for ideal growth. There is an ideal temperature range (which varies by plant) that will produce the best growth. Going outside of this range will stunt the plant. Just as cool season grass grows like mad in the spring and fall when soil temperatures are in this ideal range, so will other plants.

Ric:

For on-the-cheap hydro production in your area of the country, you may want to look into drip emitters and using sand as the media. While I'm not a big fan of this technique, it is used successfully in many parts of the world. You do need to keep an eye on the nutrient concentration in the sand, but the sweet part is most of the time the emitters are dripping only water. It's not the best method, but it does work, and is cheap to do.

Woody

[Ric]

Woody

My main commercial interest in Hydroponics is cloning woody ornamentals and stepping up to soil 3 gal pots for resale. I use, or have used a mist house in the passed and must rebuild due to the hurricane. I am investigating the economics of a hydroponic cloning operation and At this point don't know if it is even possible. Possibly a modified mist house with a resies might increase production. In the past I have sprayed nutrients by hand out of a 15 gal electric sprayer. However I am not sure it was as effective as a resies or what I would like it to have been.

Of course you and Bizzaro both got me hooked on Hydroponics and I hopefully will at least try it as a hobby. I think for you northern guys, this is just the right time to get started for a hobby garden and a good education. By 4th of July it will be Too hot for tomatoes in my area and yours will just be coming it.

I down loaded a PDF off the net that was a very good start to understanding Hydroponics, However the food production book has a lot more technical information. I am glad I read the PDF first.

Hardboiled

Thanks for showing an interest. I can only hope many of those lurking here will also post to show they are interested also. Woody and Bizzaro will be more inclined to share their knowledge if they know there are many interested in what they have to say. Like you I am all ears.

[Ric]

OK

maybe I can stir a little interest. Today I went to the Hydroponic store and purchased the supplies to make a Bubbler. Pretty simple, just a regular aerations pump for a fish tank and a air stone. I bought the best they had and only spend $ 20.00.

I will use a 2.5 gallon bucket with lid. Cutting a hole in the lid, I will use foam with a small hole in it to place a cutting. The cutting will be just below the water line and the air stone will be just under that.

[jimslawnservice1]

Is this code for growing "cash crops" LOL

All this talk about bubblers, disks, ect>

[Ric]

Is this code for growing "cash crops" LOL

All this talk about bubblers, disks, ect>

Jim

We would be fools to grow illegal plants and then talk about it on the world wide web.

I believe I have stated my interest in it on a commercial bases. Right now I will try it as a hobby. The Term bubbler is used in Howard Resh PhD's book "Hydroponic food production" and is a form of Aeroponics. Hydroponics in underground use still use the same terms as legal growing.

[Woody]

I'm curious to see how it works out Ric. Are you going to apply a rooting compound (isn't it one of the indoles that stimulate rooting??)? Maybe placing the cutting into a root-stimulating "bath" for a few hours intitially?

Once roots develop, how are you going to transition to the eventual soil media? I'm guessing a multi-step process, intially going to something like pearlite, peat, or something of that nature. Possibly a Jiffy Pot or something like that? Then eventually placing that into soil media.

I'm interested in seeing how this all works out.

Woody

[Ric]

Woody

I use, or have used a mist house in the passed and must rebuild due to the hurricane.......... Possibly a modified mist house with a resies might increase production. In the past I have sprayed nutrients by hand out of a 15 gal electric sprayer. However I am not sure it was as effective as a resies or what I would like it to have been.

Woody

The bubbler and the mist house are two seperate Ideas. The Bubbler is in fact more for the hobby side, A cheap way to get started.

I am thinking on useing commercial linner trays with Either rock wool or some other type of medium, maybe even soil. My Idea is to use a reservoir in the mist house and add nutrients. The addition of only 100 to 200 PPM of nutrients hopefully would increase production enough to pay for itself. Of course building cost can put the economics out of range. Pump costs and electric to run it is not the issue. Re-capturing water and channeling it back to a reservoir is the issue on building expense.

Once the Linner trays are ready to transplant and harden off. A Nutrient rich soil would be used. The main Idea I am trying to accomplish is a great root start which would correlate to a health fast growing plant in a one gallon and then 3 gallon. One step Be on would be Drip hydro on the one gallons. Once again construction costs come into play. Drip line and emitter are $ 0.25 each not counting the poly pro pipe to them or the injection or reservoir. The Economics of Drip Irrigation on large groups of three gallons let a lone one gallons compared to over head irrigation is very dramatic. Drip does conserve water (not my issue at this time) but Construction and maintenance costs are prohibitive unless a large benefit is recieved.

How in Talking with the Hydro Shop guy, He tells me this is all possible. However in the same breath he admits to having no idea of the economics of such an Idea. How I can buy Linner trays and even one gallons at a very cheap price. So at what point does propagations and the aches of it come into play. My first accounting figures showed that buying one gallons and stepping them up to 3 gallons was the Quickest way to produce a finish plant. There wasn't a great deal of saving in buying linner trays. Survival rate of purchased one gallons has been so good that it made up the difference in my mind. However the advantage of doing cutting cloning can be source of available plants. Availability of plants is a problem.

Another factor that is most important is market timing. The average woody ornamental takes about 9 months to grow out. Our Market is based on the same snowbird market as all of Florida. Oct 15 is Yankee come back day. It also marks the end of our summer growing season and is approx the date lawn mowing returns to every two weeks. Therefore Jan 15 would be the Ideal start date for cloning plants. However Mother nature is not quite ready. She still has long nights and sleepy days. Soil Temperature is still lower than our tropical plants like. March 15th is our no freeze date but with in a month we warm up considerably. Sure we sell plants year round and normally don't freeze. BUT.

Yes I am looking for that better Mouse trap. Other are also. From what I have seen of the growing operation hydroponics is not used commercially in Woody Ornamental production. Maybe I should follow instead of try to lead. Since I am unable to do a real cost study and compare any increase in production, maybe I should move on to Hobby Hydroponics first. I like the idea of a modified Mist house but would need two set ups to accomplish it. One Fresh water for starts and a second with nutrient recapture system for increased growth. BTW the Hydro shop Guy told me about Nutrient rich Fog systems that were not in Howard Reshs book. This might be a real economic way of doing things However straight forgers are quite costly.

GM

Looks like I am imitating you with the mile long post. Since I am only half your length just call me 3 Pines.

[Ric]

Woody

Oops I didn't answer one of your original Question. In the past I have used a hormone to soak all cutting in for several hours before sticking them. I guess a bubbler in this tub wouldn't hurt to leave them longer.

Of course any one can propagate by putting a cutting in a glass of water and watch the roots grow. Nothing added is really needed. The idea of Hydroponics is to give those roots Oxygen and Nutrients to increase growth rate, production and plant health. Hours of Light and Temperature are really big factors that should also be considered. Artificial light can in fact fill the gap of both Light and temperature in a closed environment and should be some of the first consideration. Maybe I could increase production by simply adding Lights. However as artificial lights get further away from the plant Light intensity is lost very quickly. Light Spectrum also plays roll in Photosynthesis. But the big problem comes in mixing Electric and Water.

[hardboiled]

Somehow I missed a few days of these posts. Thank you for all the contributing knowledge guys. I am going to take notes and compile them as soon as I have time then hit the brew and grow and whatever various stores I need to. I'm excited about getting started. A good book will be on the list if you have any recommendations.
My wifes father passed this week so it's a bad time to stay current on here, but I will get back to it. I've been hitting the new posts button but they didn't show up till last night. I still can't figure out why that doesn't work right sometimes.
I'll do this project for him too. He would see a plant he liked while out somewhere, and snatch a piece and try to propogate it. He would experiment at an amatuer level sort of. When he moved to Florida, he took grass blend from here (Chicago region) and got it to take, for a while at least around his garage.
My main purpose for this endeavor is to be able to eat better and grow various herbs for medicinal and nutritional support (horehound for coughs, oregano, Yerba Santa for congestion).
My health has dwindled over the last two years and every time I see a doctor they manage to make me worse with their efforts and drugs that cause further problems. I swear it's about to kill me. Here's a brief summary of what they've done:
Original complaint:
knee pain-"take ibuprofin"
go back in with stomach problems " you've got an ulcer from the ibuprofin-take prevacid"
go in with worse stomach discomfort-"you have a hyatal hernia(I know the prevacid caused it)
now they would like me to take stronger doses of prevacid type drugs.
screw that, I'll work on it myself for a while and get better before I die.
So I'm heading down another path for a while. Juicing and lots of fruits and vegetables without the chemicals and drugs. There are various plants that help with the nasuea and pain, like ginger and peppermint.
Ooops, I went off on a tangent there, sorry. Well, the point is I believe were not getting the nutrition from foods like we used to and better eating may be the ticket. I'm trying it. With all your help, I hope to get feeling and living better. Thanks again (for listening to me babble too).