Fire Ant Control

[Ric]

Southern members now all about Fire Ant season. There are native Fire Ants however it is the Imported Fire Ants that we have a problem with. Those of you that do not have Fire Ants or a pesticide license are missing a moneymaker, however be thankful. Fire Ants Both Bite and Sting. First they bite to hold on, and then they can really sting you. Stings become infected and form a pustule that hurts and itches. Fire Ants cause many deaths each year. Sudsing Ammonium will draw out the Hurt and Itch.

Texas A & M developed a Fire Ant Program called the "Texas Two Step" I have found it to be very successful. Sorry I don't have there website URL but you may find via search engine.

STEP #1 Ant baits are applied over the entire property to be treated. If the weather is between 70-90 degrees worker ants carry the bait back to the nest and into the food chain. If the weather is not between 70-90 degrees then the colony will be inactive. Fire Ants will forage more than 100 ft from the nest for food. Monogyne colonies (single Queen) (reddish color) will be easier to control than Pologyne colonies (20-60 Queens)(orangish-brown color) and may require more treatment. Monogyne colonies will have as many as 100,000 to 250,000 workers ranging in size from 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch and 40 to 150 mounds per acre. Pologyne Colonies will have closer to 500,000 worker and are smaller at 1/8 to 3/16 of and inch and 200 to 800 mounds per acre. Monogyne colonies will be more antagonistic and therefore are a greater threat. Ants do not eat solid food they must suck the liquid. In order to feed the colony ants must carry solid matter back to the larvae to have it liquidized by enzymes. Ants carry food in there stomachs and regurgitate it to their sister to eat. (Worker ants are sterile females.) This is important to know about control as to why slow acting baits are so effective. It is important to remember that after mating Queens can fly 12 miles and their nests do not become visible for up to 3-4 months. Baits are effective during this time. Baits containing Hydramethylnon work in 1-5 weeks and kill all members of the colony. Baits containing Fenoxycarb or Abamectin stop egg production and take 5-10 weeks to kill all members of the colony.

STEP#2a Spot treat all visible mounds 2-3 days after applying bait and keep customer happy

Step# 2b Apply general insecticide treatment to stop forging ants and keep customer happy


It costs about $15.00 to treat an acre with baits. Studies have shown that early summer application give control for up to a year on treated areas over an acre. The larger the area treated the longer the control. Once control is gained it can be maintained with bait treatments every three months on smaller properties.

I have gone round and round in the passed about Fire Ant treatment with Top Choice instead of the Texas two step. Either case Time of year applications is most important. Both treatments are effective. However soil type will affect residual of Top Choice. My sandy soil does not have the chemical holding power (CEC) of clay soil. Therefore Top Choice is not my choice. From marketing stand I prefer to do more treatment because once on the Property I can take an extra minute to inspect for other possible up sells from other problems.

Each Species of Ant have slightly different life cycles and only by knowing each species of ant life cycle can you truly control them correctly. Many Pologyne species are very hard to control because once there is mortality of colony members the colony buds or breaks a part into many different colonies. Slow acting Baits become very effective in treating them because all the Queens are treated before Mortality starts to occur. Mistreatment or mismanagement of control measures in fact exacerbates the problem.

[ArmadilloLawnCare]

I hate fire ants!!! Was mowing last week with a WB and went over a fire ant hill I didn't see and the mower discharged the top half of the ant hill into a cloud of dirt and ants. You can probably guess the rest. These ant bites itch for days and turn into what look like little white heads that secrete a clear fluid.

[hardboiled]

Thank you very much Ric. You, Bob Kessler and probably some others were helpful to me wth my carpenter ant problem in the old willow this summer. I will add this info to the file started then.

[Ric]

Thank you very much Ric. You, Bob Kessler and probably some others were helpful to me wth my carpenter ant problem in the old willow this summer. I will add this info to the file started then.

Hardboiled

I forget whether you ever posted back you got your carpenter ants controlled or not???? I believe Both Bob and I suggested Baits which are slow acting but effective and easy to uses as a homeowner.

I would like to see the level of the information posted here be raised to the next level. I would like to feel comfortable asking questions instead of answering them. The only way this can be done is with better question from members and a few posts like this one. There are many knowledgeable Lurkers reading here who would post if we had the right questions ask.

[hardboiled]

I did resolve it and stopped seeing them on the tree at night. I will be on the lookout for them on the rest of the property since they were scattered when the branch broke off the tree.
A question for you then about the fire ants. Are they not going to show up in the northern region due to the climate? You may have mentioned that in the past but I forget. Is there the possibility of them winding up here over time like the African killer bees? Thanks

[Ric]

I did resolve it and stopped seeing them on the tree at night. I will be on the lookout for them on the rest of the property since they were scattered when the branch broke off the tree.
A question for you then about the fire ants. Are they not going to show up in the northern region due to the climate? You may have mentioned that in the past but I forget. Is there the possibility of them winding up here over time like the African killer bees? Thanks

Hardboiled

Highly unlikely that Fire Ants will go to much further North But they are already in California. They came into this country in 1948 to the port of Mobile Alabama and have spread from there.

My Education is in Plant Science and not entomology. I of course studied a few courses in Entomology as part of Plant Science. When studying any living thing we must understand life cycles and environments in with they live. Fire Ants are originally from Brazil. If you go 3 section below the equator you will find Brazil and 3 sections above you find Fla., Texas, and Calf. plus states in between. Similar environments is the reason for their survival and lack on natural predators is the reason for their spread.

A former microbiology Professor I studied under alway said "Every thing is everywhere and the environment selects." (he was reffing to Microbes) I am sure there are Fire Ants that make in as far or further North than Chicago each year. However they are unable to survive the hard winter freezes in your area. I am not sure where your winter freeze line is, But I would guess is much lower than the 6 to 9 inch underground that a Fire Ant Queen will make her nest. I would think you freeze line is closer to 18 inches at least.

Just North of me the U of Fla. set up a study on natural Predators of the Fire Ant as a means of suppressing them. That was a few years back and I have not followed that study or it's results. I hit burn out a couple of years ago and Haven't kept up on a lot of things. I need some intellectual stimulation to get me back with it. Technology is ever changing in todays world.

[Absolute Weed C]

Hello Ric,
I am in Montana and I am also a Plant science person but we are treating fire ants here as well. We have a bigger spiecies then you described in the first article. Ours range in size from 5/16 to 7/16 inch and are red with a black abdomin. I usually hit the mound with Eliminator, with a follow up application of Tempo seems to work ok this way. Also our mounds up here get to be up to 18 inches + tall and 24 + inches around.

We talking about the same critter here??

[Ric]

Hello Ric,
I am in Montana and I am also a Plant science person but we are treating fire ants here as well. We have a bigger spiecies then you described in the first article. Ours range in size from 5/16 to 7/16 inch and are red with a black abdomin. I usually hit the mound with Eliminator, with a follow up application of Tempo seems to work ok this way. Also our mounds up here get to be up to 18 inches + tall and 24 + inches around.

We talking about the same critter here??

Absolute

We also have Native Fire Ants have are not so aggressive. There are 3 ants in North America the sting. Fire Ants, Harvest Ants and Carpenter Ants. Are you sure these are not Carpenter???

[Dallas Turf]

For our ants here in North Texas I have had some good luck with Top Choice. I have gotten 14-15 months control off of the first application. We have very heavy clay soil. I apply at 2 pounds per thousand and then spot treat any mounds that are already there with acephate or a bait product. The top choice works well for me because we offer it to our mowing and fert customers and do not have to keep reapplying the baits or hosing them down.

We don't get as much customer contact from our ant control like Ric is looking for to provide other up sells, but we are already there doing their other services which gives us opportunity for the up sells.

I wish they would label the termidor (same A.I. as topchoice) for broadcast applications for ants so it could be applied when we are making our other blanket applications in the spring or fall.

How much are others getting for their topchoice applications and their other bait applications? I know we all have our own overhead and pricing but I would like to see if I am in the ballpark at min $125 for 5msf.

Thanks,

Jason

[Ric]

Jason

We have talked on the phone many times and I know you know your stuff. Heavy clay soil is the key to you success with Top Choice just as sandy soil has been the reason for my lack of success with Top Choice. I am happy for you that you have found a program that both works for and your customer. When people start to realize it is what you Know more than what you do, that brings success we will all be better off.

What I am reading between your lines is. A business model that is based on knowledge of pesticide and agronomy that has been worked into an efficient business plan. I can not use your plan just as many others couldn't copy it either. Our Local conditions call for a business model that takes into account our local conditions.

The only thing that separates you from anyone else in this business is what you know and how you apply it.

[Dallas Turf]

Ric,
Like you have said, what works in one area will not always work in another and people should take more time to look into the best practices for the area that they service.

Jason

[Absolute Weed C]

Absolute

We also have Native Fire Ants have are not so aggressive. There are 3 ants in North America the sting. Fire Ants, Harvest Ants and Carpenter Ants. Are you sure these are not Carpenter???

No Ric,,
Our carpenter ants up here are about 1" to 1"1/4 long and are jet black...
The fire ants as we call them are highly aggressive and when hunting, they form long trails to and from their food supply. I had to quickly respond to a condo association a couple years ago. It seemed these ants attacked a small child in the grass. When i got there i think most of the colony was in the turf patch next to the house. I then followed the chain of ants about 100yards and found a large sized mound just covered in ants. The child was in pretty bad shape from all the bites. The mother said she set the car seat down off the hot pavement to lock her door and when she turned around from the baby screaming. She said the car seat was completely covered with ants.
Believe it or not Ric,, I have never seen anything like it other than movies. it was really creepy

[Ric]

No Ric,,
Our carpenter ants up here are about 1" to 1"1/4 long and are jet black...
The fire ants as we call them are highly aggressive and when hunting, they form long trails to and from their food supply. I had to quickly respond to a condo association a couple years ago. It seemed these ants attacked a small child in the grass. When i got there i think most of the colony was in the turf patch next to the house. I then followed the chain of ants about 100yards and found a large sized mound just covered in ants. The child was in pretty bad shape from all the bites. The mother said she set the car seat down off the hot pavement to lock her door and when she turned around from the baby screaming. She said the car seat was completely covered with ants.
Believe it or not Ric,, I have never seen anything like it other than movies. it was really creepy

Absolute

Just as Jason and I have said each area has to be worked differently, I have never known Carpenter Ants in My area to be so aggressive. Don't know what to tell you other than you do have a different Variety of Carpenter Ants than we do over 2,000 miles away.

[Ric]

I hate fire ants!!! Was mowing last week with a WB and went over a fire ant hill I didn't see and the mower discharged the top half of the ant hill into a cloud of dirt and ants. You can probably guess the rest. These ant bites itch for days and turn into what look like little white heads that secrete a clear fluid.

Armadillo Lawb Care

I am not feeling good and even stayed home from my normal Wednesday night League game. I am watch TV and Mindlessly read the old posts on this forum to amuse my self. Any way I forgot to reply to your post about how bad Fire Ant stings burn and Itch. Sorry.

PARSONS SUDDING AMONIUM is the greatest thing to keep in the truck for First Aid on Fire Ant Stings. Apply it liberal as soon as possible and it will draw out enough poison to stop the pain and Itch. Sorry the pustules will still forum and go away with time But with out pain. BTW It works on almost all insect bite. Other choices might be Windex or another ammonium product, but the soap in Parsons help the ammonium work better.

[hardboiled]

PARSONS SUDDING AMONIUM is the greatest thing to keep in the truck for First Aid on Fire Ant Stings.

Good advice. Ammonia is common in remedies for stings from sea creatures and fire coral I think. Isn't vinegar supposed to help too?