New Idea for Turf Managers

[GroundKprs]

A few people in turf management have been discussing the setup of a subscription website for ornamental turfgrass managers. Right now, there are state turf associations with regular annual seminars to keep up with the new facets of turf management. Within the last 3 years, two turf associations in the Midwest have considered an online medium, but have backed off because of the time and effort to start up such a site.

We envision an educational and interactive site, with member driven input to educational pages. Trade suppliers have already indicated they will contribute educational materials. If the site shows stability and sincerity, we may get state turf associations to contribute information in the future. There would, of course, be a forum for interaction, but the forum will just be a part of the site and will be tightly moderated to reduce redundant questions, disinformation and pure ego postings. Discussions will be based on scientific principles of turf management, rather than personal preferences.

Our object is learning and sharing. There would be no advertising to support the site, so we are free to discuss any aspect of the green industry without political constraints. But since any presence on the web costs something, members will pay an annual fee for access. The site is ready to start up anytime in the near future, if enough people are interested. We have a private discussion forum set up to plan this site. If anyone is interested in joining the discussion, visit Ornamental Turf Network to inquire about access, or email or PM me. There is no charge for participation in the discussion group, but the discussion will not interest you unless you are willing to pay for enhancing your knowledge. Current members include people with over 25 years in the trade, and novices with a few years experience.

Don't hammer GM with spam warnings. Roscoe has approved this before posting.

[Ric]

GroundKprs

You have my support and I look forward to one again learning from you. Over the many years I have followed forums I will have to admit you are one of the most knowledgeable people I have found. Knowing that you will have many others more knowledgeable than you giving input, I know how valuable this new forum can be. The check is in the mail.


BTW Is it true Roscoe is helping with the website???

[GroundKprs]

Don't listen to Ric. I do not know it all. In fact, I tell my clients, and anyone who asks for information on turfgrass: "I do not know all the answers, but maybe I can find your answer. If you find someone who does know it all, and they charge you less than $500 an hour, they are a liar."

20 some years ago, wanting to learn something about grass, I went to a new golf super, just out of college, and offered him $20 an hour (good money in the mid 80s) to coach me on turfgrass. We spent 4 hours on a Sat, going over some of my lawns, and he couldn't tell me squat. But for my $80, I did learn - I learned that golf turf and ornamental turf are two different worlds.

In the late 80s and thru the 90s, I spent an average of $2000 a year going to state and national trade meetings. From that I learned from the seminars, and from the other people I met, much of what I use today to make my lawns the standouts they are. This is just an attempt to get that sharing online.

And yes, Roscoe has been advising me since last winter on how to go about the setup. He is the oldest presence on the web, and he has helped start up numerous other sites. And his is the only green industry site where I have not seen a major data loss, so I trust his guidance. And I thank him for his generosity in allowing me to broach this idea on his board.

[Ric]

Groundskper

Maybe because of the penning Holiday season the unwashed masses are not responding. Maybe we are not presenting the Idea of a pay forum in the right light. It should be made very clear that after website fees, all money is used to pay seminar providers.

The value of this site in an intangible one. What people have to remember is Education costs time sweat and money. But the right knowledge pays for itself many times over. You and I didn't get to where we are today with out putting forward a little effort. At the same time we realize how little we know and seek to increase our knowledge all the time.

An important fact of Life is you are paid more for what you know than for what you do. To sell service a good salesman knows his stuff and can answer the customer's question. Upscale customer are willing to pay for a Knowledgeable service provider. LEARN WHAT THE SCRUBS DON'T KNOW, IT WILL SET YOU APART FROM THEM.

[quiet]

... still waiting for the "secret code" here, too

[GroundKprs]

........Just my opinion and it is worth every cent you paid.

On that, you are correct, for once.

... still waiting for the "secret code" here, too

Check your email.

[GrassMaster]

L@@K Ma I'm Top of the World!!!!!

Mr. Piedra:

Gee The GrassMaster has been called a lot of things on the Internet butt a "Proven Professional"? I hope & pray that Lawrence Stone reads this, now what's next?

Man have I got the Big Head right now. I hope Ric sees this too!

Mr. Piedra after a compliment like that I will try to communicate with Jim & see if I can't make him a offer he can't refuse.

I can easily see a partnership in the near future with the "Ornamental Turf Network" how about it Mr. Jim? Talk to me I'm all ears.

I think I could work out something, I do very well with partnering Internet Activities. My last Partner did so well he went into retirement in his early years.

Senior Piedra are you thinking that the Delphi forum mumbo jumbo format & sign up forms before viewing what it's about is scaring off potential folks interested in becoming members that are willing to learn.

I think if he had a separate Domain & Subscription forum about Ornamental Turf where people could gain Knowledge & Exchange Turf Management ideas then figure out a way where some of the other facets of the Green Industry Professional could possibly be integrated with this forum that it would have great benefits for all concerned...

What do you think Mr.Jim?
(Jim, Is there a way to give the general public viewing access only to those discussions? So they can see what it's all about?)

[Ric]

GM

As a long time friend of Mr Jim and yes I mean that in a very respectful way, I will talk to him. Jim has wanted to have a Private forum for as long as I have know him. He is not in to it for the money. He is interested only in the education he and other can learn from it. I don't Believe Jim has posted a great deal here on Lawnservice and in fact he hasn't post much on any forum in the past year or so. But Older member that know Jim respect his knowledge.


However I think I see both your points on this issue. Because I know these points, I am not sure you can come to a total agreement. Each will have to give a little. My suggestion is the Telephone. GM I know you are not big on talking on the telephone, but Jim's cell phone is free Long distance in the evening. One thing I feel for sure. You are both honorable men of your word.

Jim

Old Stoney has a good point about Athletic turf and some Ornamental shrubs. I am not sure how Ornamental shrubs can be worked in when Most university deal more with Turf research. I also know you have made contact with many University Professors to give seminars. I don't think Athletic turf will be a problem for them.

[GroundKprs]

Twenty years ago, when one went to my state turf educational meetings, there were a few sessions on golf turf, and the rest was general turf. Today, the winter meeting has three seperate sections: golf turf discussions, athletic turf, and general turf. There is a continuing specialization in turfgrass science. I would be quite ignorant to use only golf or sports turf principles to try to manage the turf of an office complex.

100 years ago, the only scientific application to ornamental turf was interpolation of agricultural grass research results. This was because agriculture was a cash crop, and research was funded by the $$$ from that crop. About 50 years ago, with the postwar affluence, golf became a great draw, golf turf became a cash crop, and golf turf research was driven by the $$$ from golf. So by the 1970s, ornamental turf was managed by interpolation of the science of wheat, oats, barley, etc. and the science of golf turf. In the 26 years I have been in the business, I have seen a tremendous growth of the ornamental turf management business. Ornamental turf is a great cash crop for me, and most of the members on this board. In the last 20 years, there has been more research in the ornamental turf arena, because it is a recognized specialty cash crop.

This proposal is just an attempt to draw together the practitioners of ornamental turf management in an online setting, where we can share our experiences, assist new people in the field who want to learn proper management principles, and keep up with innovation. Late last winter, the few members of the discussion group were invited to the first webinar (online seminar) on turf management. This webinar was directed to golf turf workers, but the principles were applicable to all turf.

We are not interested in egos, arguements and "how do I charge for mowing?".

The Delphi medium is just being used for the discussion group; any forum setting will be in the format of this forum. BUT since the setting is to be informational, any forum will only be a part of the medium.

And I'm sorry, GM, this would never be of interest to the general public, so I see no reason to expose it to them now or ever. The general public looks for instantaneous gratification, the magic potion or additive to have the best lawn on the block. Many of the people in lawn care are also after this magic, so they can continue to look for it elsewhere.

[Elwood]

And I'm sorry, GM, this would never be of interest to the general public, so I see no reason to expose it to them now or ever. The general public looks for instantaneous gratification, the magic potion or additive to have the best lawn on the block. Many of the people in lawn care are also after this magic, so they can continue to look for it elsewhere.

Jim, I can see that you have a GREAT idea and it would be well worth the money spent, BUT look at the crowd you are targeting. Please, no one take offense, especially you Jim, but most newbies are just that, newbies. They are typically more concerned with "how much do I charge?" and "Which mower is best?", vs. what you have to offer. They are trying to figure out how to live and survive. After they get thru that phase, have made a few bucks and have ordered that $50k diesel pickup with chrome stacks out the bed, they feel they have the world by the tail and don't need help.

After those folks realize after a few years that it takes more than that truck to REALLY make money (if they even have a clue about what REAL money is at this point), they are getting very serious about the green industry and will want to participate in what you have going on.

Look at the numbers in this industry. 90% probly won't make it to the final level and of those that do, how many will find you?


I guess what I am saying is don't get discouraged. Your numbers will be small, especially at first, but I feel you will have some of the best minds in the biz. and some of the very best information out there, in reality sold for pennies on the dollar of what it is worth. Put in percentages, a very small number of companies last very long and are of any size. My guess is that it would take someone filling both shoes to have the desire to not only want to learn from the best, but contribute and share what they know with others, in other words, step into the shoes of "Professional".

Best of luck with your project, I will keep a close eye out and help spread the word when I can.