curious about apps

[dclark2037]

I am curious about something that maybe you guys with more experience can help me understand. I found one of the locals flyer at the Co-op and it states that their "Yearly treatment Program" consist of 8 Fert apps a year. the program that is use and sell is only 4 apps a year and it also is the same program that the Head of Grounds at the University uses. It has a pre and post emerg. What are they doing are cutting the Fert or just putting out less at at time? BTW I am licensed and insured to apply.
Thanks
David

[MASTERMOWER]

Greed?

I really don't know your areas fertilization requirements, but I can only assume here.....so forgive me if I happen to be wrong.

Why 8 applications? One word: MONEY!

If they could get away with 15 applications.....do you think they'd do it?

Funny thing how you say you stick with what your local university recommends. Here, the university recommends a certain program as well. Funny.....no local fert companies do what is recommended. They'd rather create their own program tailored around individual profit seeking.

Is it environmentally ethical? Surely not...right? I mean com'on, we all really should base each lawns nutritional needs off soil samples. Sounds great in theory, but how can a larger chem company do this when they have hundreds if not thousands of customers? Mixing custom blends of fertilizers for each lawn would be too time consuming....very wasteful in their eyes.

But it goes beyond this. Locally based fert companies do understand the turfs needs. Meaning here, you won't see them dumping fertilizer on a cool season grass in the middle of summer. Go nationally now, think ChemKill, they really could care less about what they're tossing onto their customers lawns. I've seen them here fertilizing in the heat of summer....even on drought scorched lawns. Why? I should have played dumb and asked the applicator what he was appling and how it'd be of benefit to the turf. But whatever he would have said, they real answer would relate back to one thing: MONEY.

It never ceases to piss me off when I see those precious little fertilizer granulars laying in the streets. I'm sure you'll all seen this (or do this). Rotary spreaders are nice - they are quick - but you cannot control where all the fertilizer flies all too accurately huh? You make a pass along the street or driveway, inevitably granulars will bounce onto the paved surface. That's ok....so long as you go back and clean it up. But who does? Afterall, who's really gunna care....who's really gonna see those things.......what harm can they really do? Nitrates.......rain water runoff.........again, who really cares? You made your money....isn't that all that matters?

Funny thing, I read in the newspaper a while back how the EPA is forcing city governments to educate it's residents about ground water contamination. The article specifically cited lawn fertilizing as one of the main pollutants. Funny, I betca $100 the fert companies will still leave that fertilizer laying in the road this year, meanwhile the city will spend an ungodly amount of money targeting residents not to pollute. Well, it's not funny....it's sad.

It is sad. The greed for money is what will kill (or severely wound) the lawn fertilizer/pesticide industry here in the states.

Sorry I went off on a rant. Hopefully I answered your question?

[dclark2037]

Absolutely 1000% correct. You hit the nail square on the head. Although I do use a rotary spreader it does a have deflector on it and I do use it when around the streets and beds for that reason. I also have seen a report that the EPA has put out targeting the homeowner. It has a picture of a guy with a spreader walking on wha appears to be a lake and it simply states : Runoff do you know where your Fertilizer is?
Thank You MM for your response
David

[Total Turf]

I am curious about something that maybe you guys with more experience can help me understand. I found one of the locals flyer at the Co-op and it states that their "Yearly treatment Program" consist of 8 Fert apps a year. the program that is use and sell is only 4 apps a year and it also is the same program that the Head of Grounds at the University uses. It has a pre and post emerg. What are they doing are cutting the Fert or just putting out less at at time? BTW I am licensed and insured to apply.
Thanks
David

Do you know what they are putting down?They could be putting organics down to improve the soil quality. They could be spoon feeding the N or Doing Half rate apps. If that is what they are doing, that is better for the environment and better for their business. Don't judge until you are sure.

[Nik]

Afterall, who's really gunna care....who's really gonna see those things.......what harm can they really do?

Out our way that Ag dept does see it. And they do look into it. There are also environmental quality departmenst at the state, county, and city level. Salmon have become the scared cow for the NW and anything that is put out and ends up in the water is getting more and more scrutiny.

What do the grounds at the University look like?

[MortNuke]

I cringe when folks cast judgement on fellow applicators. The needs of turf are so extensive that I could easily justify 15 applications per year without batting an eye. Now, is the most cost-effective program? No. But, when that customer wants the best lawn in the neighborhood (without regard to price) then I deliver!

Joe Schmucketelli off the street (MM) may criticize what he sees, but is this really appropriate without first-hand knowedge of the degree of control being paid for by the customer? I think not.

Pre-emergent #1 with fert, Post-emergent broadleaf, Pre-emergent #2 with fert, Lime, Post-emergent grass, Insecticide #1, Disease Control #1, Preventive Grub (Merit), Insecticide #2, Disease Control #2, Fall Fert, Lime, Winter Fert, Winter Pre-emergent.

Without giving away the whole enchilada of blending, or granular vs. liquid, this is a sample of "Super-Care". For many customers, price is no concern...and of course you charge for each application if you have customers that demand it.

Can You Deliver, or do you just make fun of those who do?

Mort

[Seascape]

Its usually (not always but usually) the guys that struggle to get 4 app programs signed that complain about others signing 6 app programs.

[MASTERMOWER]

Mr. MortNuke, with all due respect,

I wouldn't know a damn thing about your region, but perhaps your soils are that acidic? (here they tend to be alkaline)...

...anyhow, if you'd break my program down, it'd consist of 6 applications. 1) Pre emergent + fert, 2) Pre emergent + fert, 3)broadleaf post emergent control, 4) fall fert, 5) Fall broadleaf post emergent control, 6) late fall fert. Now depending on the lawn and/or customer, other applications might be recommended to the customer, such as insect/grub control or applications necessary to adjust pH, those usually either of these are not needed.

What's interesting is many turf problems can be controlled with proper cultural practices. Our dependancy on chemicals to provide solutions to turf problems (preventative or curative) is rather rediculous in my mind. Yeah, so I have a fert and squirt business....so I'm just as guilty, regardless though, having to dump a multitude of products onto your lawn to have a "nice lawn" is moronic.

Isn't the best advice for a weed free lawn nice thick turf? Well, to get nice thick turf the lawn should be under a fert program, but equally important would be proper cultural practices, such as mowing/aeration/dethatching(if need be). So then if the turf is nice and thick....with little to no weeds, then why even bother hosing the entire lawn down with weed killer? Eh...."the customer wants it." I see this all the time.

But hey, if the customer desires this....then why argue?

Why argue? Many wouldn't.....

What are the options once the EPA places extreme restrictions on lawn pesticide use????

[mark123]

I am curious about something that maybe you guys with more experience can help me understand. I found one of the locals flyer at the Co-op and it states that their "Yearly treatment Program" consist of 8 Fert apps a year. ...

Does it actually say "8 FERT" apps?

Perhaps they consider the weed control a separate application even though they apply it on the same day as the fertilizer. Just a guess.

We do between 3 and 6 apps for our customers (depending on what they want) with our average customer taking 4 apps. That's a higher number if you separate the weed control out (blanket 1-2 times per year and spot spray the rest).

I can see that it is possible to get 8 apps on a lawn if you have a low number of customers or a high number of employees but I wouldn't force anyone to take more than they want as some in my area have started doing.

One company has been under cutting us on app price and then demanding that the customers receive 6 apps per year (which raises the yearly cost above ours on the price shopper lawn). Forcing the customer to take more than they want seems silly to me. Could you imagine that happening at a restaurant? HA, reminds me of Monty Python.