tree and shrub ferts

[mariner]

I'm going to be doing liquid injections this year and was wondering how much water you fugure to add to the tank for proper coverage. I want to put a LB of nitro down per application. I know how to figure out the product amount but can't decide on the amount of carrier. I was thinking a quart of water per sq ft. I have a 200 gallon tank and want to make the most out of it. What do those of you who have done this before calculate?

[Seascape]

http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/pdf/0045s.pdf

[mariner]

Sorry, liquid fertilizer not herbicide.

[Seascape]

Marinr bud,, im sorry that was something differant than i thought. I dont think im gonna be much help to you. Have you went up and spoke w/ lesco? Theyre great about this stuff usually.

mike

[mariner]

I'll probably ask them since that is where the tank came from last year but I don't think I'll be using their products this year as I have found better prices elsewhere.

[mariner]

Nobody deals with tree and shrubs ferts??? I find that hard to believe.

[bobkessler]

Generally speaking, deciduous (woody) trees like oaks, maples, etc. do not require fertilizing other than what is applied to the turf. Yeah there are exceptions.
Shrubs and ornamentals are a different story all together, and really need to be split into acid loving, flowering, non-flowering, etc.
See if your local Lesco can give you some direction on this, or the nursery you buy your plant material from.

[mariner]

I'm trying to find out the amount of carrier that is gernerally used.

[bobkessler]

Fertilizers

The carrier is usually an organic like clay. I'm interested, why are you concerned about the carrier? I could learn something.
A 40 lb. bag of 16-4-8 would have 6.4 lbs. of nitrogen; 1.6 lbs. of phosphoros; and 3.2 lbs. of potassium. That leaves 28.8 lbs. of fill, excepting the micros like iron, copper, zinc, etc. that rarely add up to more than a pound. So, in essence you have about 30 lbs. of active ingredient, and 10 inerts.
Fertilizers are chemically complicated and I have only a rudimentary understanding. I do know it's worth your while to pay attention to the way the N is formulated, soluble and non-soluble, and what it's coated with (sulfur), and how much.
Fertilizers do much more than react with the chlorophyll to make plants green. They increase turgor making the plant more drought tolerant, supply elements for flower and leaf reproduction, and can provide necessary plant nutrients to the soil that may not be available in that given geography.

[Ric]

Chemistry of Fertilizer is a lot more involved than Most us really need to know. Two basic ways of dealing with that Chemistry might be a college degree in Chemistry or Good faith in your supplier. Both ways have their advantage. However the more knowledge you have in chemistry the better you can chose a fertilizer.

Bob Kessler brings up a good point about Inerts an Actives both being in the bag. That is why we can not buy a 100% Nitrogen. Most Elements of Fertilizer are in fact compounds. All 16-4-8 are not the same. They use different compounds to make up that 16-4-8.

Take two forms of Nitrogen that are the most popular.

1. Ammonium Sulfate (NH4)2SO4-----or--- 21-0-0-24S

In a 40 lb bag of 16-4-8 with 6.4 lbs of actual Nitrogen. It would require about 30.4 lbs of Ammonium Sulfate to supply that 6.4 lbs on Nitrogen.


2. Urea (NH2)2CO---------or ---46-0-0

In a 40 lb bag of 16-4-8 with 6.4 lbs of actual Nitrogen. It would require only 14 lbs of Urea to supply that 6.4 lbs on Nitrogen.



Now from these number you can see one form of Nitrogen leaves very little room in the bag for other products while the other only takes up less than have that amount.

Now each of these compound react different and each has there advantages and disadvantages. U of Fla has shown by testing Ammonium Sulfate gives a darker green on St Augustine Turf. Ammonium Sulfate also has a salt index of 100% or higher burn potential than Urea. BTW Ammonium Nitrate has a salt index of 110%

As far as Filler in Fertilizer goes, There is very little.

As responses to the Shrub and Tree Fertilizer. I would simply say soil and plant species plays a very important role. Here I would refer everyone to your county Extension Agent. They have the University studies on soil and Plants in your area.

[mariner]

Sorry I asked! We are not in chemistry class here.

Bob,
I'm talking about liquid apps, not dry. You need to mix water with soluable fert to carry it to the root zone. Thats all I'm trying to find out here. How much water per sq ft or per thousand sq ft(however you want to break it down) is generally used to carry the product to the root zone. I'm using a probe to inject the fert beyond grass roots in the lawn or as a drench in ladscape beds.

I find it hard to believe that no one is in this business. If so, thats great for me!

[dougaustreim]

Your fertilizer should have a mix rate listed. Some products won't stay dissolved if you try to mix in too small a volume of water. Follow directions on the bag

Doug
Austreim Landscaping

[Seascape]

Thats kinda my line of thought to. Its going to boil down to how you mix. Your mix will dictate your application rate volume. Unless im totally misunderstanding the question.

mike

[mariner]

I'll just look at the bag when I get it. I was asking if there was a generic rate available. I was thinking mathematically that a 1 ft x 1 ft section would need about 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of water for carrier. Anymore than that, I would think that your just washing the product too far beyond the root zone. I'm just trying to get a feeling for how far my 200 gallon tank will go so that I can figure out a quick way to price a job! I know all of the fertilizer rates for all different types of plants, I just have not had to deal with liquid fert that much in the past other than lawn spraying.

[Ric]

Originally posted by mariner
Sorry I asked! We are not in chemistry class here.

Mariner

With Attitude like yours, you will always be the Lawboy asking Questions to guys like me.

Bob Kessler has been in the business all his life and I have been in the business only 7 years. I have taken Classes from Bob (I am older Than Him) and he is a great teacher. However He lives in Vero Beach, Florida. Not Columbus Ohio. Soil and Plants are totally different. Therefore I don't think He can tell you what to do in Columbus Ohio.

In a Turf Vs Trees. Trees will out compete Turf for water and Turf will out compete Trees for Nitrogen. However Trees demand for Nitrogen is not as great as turf and Bob has pointed this out already. In Florida's sandy soil deep root injection is not as effective as straight granular fertilizer. It is in fact the Rhisophere (the top 6 to 8"of soil) that all plants, including trees, get there food from.

My Guesstimation would be, you could get more good out of straight water at high pressure as an aerator than any thing. Yes you could put about 3 lbs per 200 gallons of 20-20-20 and call it deep root ferilization. 20-20-20 label calls for 3 lbs per hundred for deep root application. But in your acid clay soil that might burn the root hairs and defeat the purposes. I am not familiar with your area so just use pure salt and tell the customer you will pay for all Plant replacement, put it in writting.