Scott, Please Respond

[FreeRadical 45]

Scott, I think from what I have read on the forum you have a good understanding of powerwashing. I have a landscape job at a restaurent and they want me to quote a powerwash bid as well. The demensions are as follows:

480 feet long dog eared fence X 8 feet tall (front and back needs done) powerwash and stain. It has never been done before.

10 sections 8X10 cedar solid fence needs washed and stained. Has been stained a few years ago.

How should I bid this? By the lineal ft or sq ft? What would your price be and how long will this or should this take? What type of materials will I need? I was planing to expand this service this year but this kinda caught me off guard. Anyone else who wants to respond please respond as well.

Thanks
Ron

[Carolina ProWash]

Ron, have you ever power washed wood before? What equipment do you have? Are you properly insured to do power washing? (Our industry is not popular with insurance companies!) There are lots of things to consider before you go at someone's wood Although I'm not questioning your ability to do the job, it might be prudent for you to sub this one out with the understanding that you will be maintaining the contract - you work with the sub and learn the ropes. Practicing on a client is probably not a good idea but if you can work with someone, particularly since you want to use this as an add on service, it would be a good way to see if it's something you really want to do !

Some general information, our company bids fencing by the linear foot. Kinda doubt NC pricing would be the same as your state though. Fences are not as difficult as decks so don't command the fees that deckwork does. For the unstained fence, we would recommend a sodium percarbonate cleaner, low pressure, brighten then apply a quality oil based stain. Ther previously stained fence may need to be stripped with a sodium hydroxide based product using low pressure, followed by neutralization with an oxalic acid then again, stained with a quality oil based stain.

Celeste

[Scott]

Ron, have you ever power washed wood before? What equipment do you have? Are you properly insured to do power washing? (Our industry is not popular with insurance companies!) There are lots of things to consider before you go at someone's wood Although I'm not questioning your ability to do the job, it might be prudent for you to sub this one out with the understanding that you will be maintaining the contract - you work with the sub and learn the ropes. Practicing on a client is probably not a good idea but if you can work with someone, particularly since you want to use this as an add on service, it would be a good way to see if it's something you really want to do !

Some general information, our company bids fencing by the linear foot. Kinda doubt NC pricing would be the same as your state though. Fences are not as difficult as decks so don't command the fees that deckwork does. For the unstained fence, we would recommend a sodium percarbonate cleaner, low pressure, brighten then apply a quality oil based stain. Ther previously stained fence may need to be stripped with a sodium hydroxide based product using low pressure, followed by neutralization with an oxalic acid then again, stained with a quality oil based stain.

Celeste

WOW!
Celeste,, next time in Spanglish please


Ron,
First of all I'm not one you'd consider a true seasoned expert, yet. I've only done a couple thousand linear foot of fence, maybe a little more and roughly 2-3 dzn decks, various sizes and only two different brands of stain. Celeste, "aka Carolina ProWash" does know exactly what she's talking about when it comes to wood resto.
BUTT I would have to disagree with one thing that she has said, "sub it out". You'll never attain or learn anything by subbing gigs out. My first pw'ing job was a doosey, at least it was for me.

It roughly measured;
- 18,000sf of surface cleaning
- 1,000 linear ft of single story brick
- 800 linear ft of two story brick
- 500 linear ft of three story brick
- 700 linear ft of single stucco buildings

I had never pw'd anything butt I was determined to learn if I got the bid and i did. I was even the high bidder by $300 and when I was done, they liked the results so much that they asked me to come back and bid on an ungodly amount of fence. Strip, neutralize and stain, get paid.
So if I where you, I'd do a ton of research and get educated and know what you're doing before you do it. I read so much up on pw'ing decks and fences that at the time, you'd thought I had been doing this for years.

Here's where I got my education on wood resto:
The Cleaner Network, talk to Steve, you can even call him, he's very personal.
and
Wood Care and Construction Forums, now this is all these guys do is wood and if you get a guy named Reed Smith talking, you'll learn everything you'll ever need to know about wood.

now back to your questions:

I would bid this by the linear ft. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $4-$8 per linear foot, per side. You'll have to do some research for what your market will bear.
Time: depends on the weather, normally 2 days, one to wash/strip/neutralize, one to stain. Make sure you give the fence plenty of time to dry out, minimum of two consecutive non-rain days. You could also get a moisture sensor to make sure it's died enough.
materials:
- pw'er and plenty of hose, working pressure is less than 500psi,
- an 8010 tip should work
- palm sander
- a good stripper containing Sodium Hydroxide, a couple types are RPC 113 and/or TimberPro. these products are alkine based and will raise the woods ph
- oxalic acid to neutrailze or brighten the wood, lowers the ph. Spray this right on after you've clean the fence and it's still wet. No need to rinse. I would not let the wood stay unstained for longer than 2, maybe 3 weeks max. It's basically at a virgin state and needs a good stain to preserve it or it'll rot away.
- Good quality Oil Stain. I've used DeckScapes from Sherwin Williams and Cuprinol. Use a semi-transparent for good to ok conditioned wood and then a solid for crappy, worn out looking wood.
- you'll need a way to apply it and I use a spray gun and yes it will make a mess if you're not careful but it makes for an easy day.

I'm sure I've missed something butt it's late and I'm seeing double. I'll reread this tomorrow and make sure I didn't forget anything.

once again, read up on fence resto at those two sites. learn the process, know what chems you'll need, and cleaning/application processes.

[TRANSMAN]

DITTO on what he / scott said

WOW!
Celeste,, next time in Spanglish please


Ron,
First of all I'm not one you'd consider a true seasoned expert, yet. I've only done a couple thousand linear foot of fence, maybe a little more and roughly 2-3 dzn decks, various sizes and only two different brands of stain. Celeste, "aka Carolina ProWash" does know exactly what she's talking about when it comes to wood resto.
BUTT I would have to disagree with one thing that she has said, "sub it out". You'll never attain or learn anything by subbing gigs out. My first pw'ing job was a doosey, at least it was for me.

It roughly measured;
- 18,000sf of surface cleaning
- 1,000 linear ft of single story brick
- 800 linear ft of two story brick
- 500 linear ft of three story brick
- 700 linear ft of single stucco buildings

I had never pw'd anything butt I was determined to learn if I got the bid and i did. I was even the high bidder by $300 and when I was done, they liked the results so much that they asked me to come back and bid on an ungodly amount of fence. Strip, neutralize and stain, get paid.
So if I where you, I'd do a ton of research and get educated and know what you're doing before you do it. I read so much up on pw'ing decks and fences that at the time, you'd thought I had been doing this for years.

Here's where I got my education on wood resto:
The Cleaner Network, talk to Steve, you can even call him, he's very personal.
and
Wood Care and Construction Forums, now this is all these guys do is wood and if you get a guy named Reed Smith talking, you'll learn everything you'll ever need to know about wood.

now back to your questions:

I would bid this by the linear ft. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $4-$8 per linear foot, per side. You'll have to do some research for what your market will bear.
Time: depends on the weather, normally 2 days, one to wash/strip/neutralize, one to stain. Make sure you give the fence plenty of time to dry out, minimum of two consecutive non-rain days. You could also get a moisture sensor to make sure it's died enough.
materials:
- pw'er and plenty of hose, working pressure is less than 500psi,
- an 8010 tip should work
- palm sander
- a good stripper containing Sodium Hydroxide, a couple types are RPC 113 and/or TimberPro. these products are alkine based and will raise the woods ph
- oxalic acid to neutrailze or brighten the wood, lowers the ph. Spray this right on after you've clean the fence and it's still wet. No need to rinse. I would not let the wood stay unstained for longer than 2, maybe 3 weeks max. It's basically at a virgin state and needs a good stain to preserve it or it'll rot away.
- Good quality Oil Stain. I've used DeckScapes from Sherwin Williams and Cuprinol. Use a semi-transparent for good to ok conditioned wood and then a solid for crappy, worn out looking wood.
- you'll need a way to apply it and I use a spray gun and yes it will make a mess if you're not careful but it makes for an easy day.

I'm sure I've missed something butt it's late and I'm seeing double. I'll reread this tomorrow and make sure I didn't forget anything.

once again, read up on fence resto at those two sites. learn the process, know what chems you'll need, and cleaning/application processes.

If Scott didnt answer i was going to tell you the same exact thing!!!

Ahhhh , yea right, LOL........


I'm no expert , but you have to learn how to do things at some time , so subbing is something i would dismiss...

Even with a monster washer if you keep the wand fitted with the proper spray tip , like a 40 degree or wider if your scared , and also start spraying from a greater distance like 8 feet away , the machine should not peel off wood or do any damage...

Obviously don't start with a zero 0 degree tip , and hold the wand 5 inches away because then your gonna start cutting wood ....

Even with the wrong tip , say a 0 degree killer if your standing 20 feet back from the fence it is not going to damage anything...

I think Home depot has a book explaining the basics , and i was reading it one day while in the store... Seemed like a lot of good info from someone who has been pressure washing 30 + years as his main line of business...

(OUTDOOR CLEANING WITH PRESSURE WASHERS by PAT SIMPSON) ,and it has a little Briggs and stratton logo on it to identify the book....

Pressure washers like anything (can be dangerous) but like a lawnmower you don't just [not use one] ever , because you could "possibly" cut your hand off if your dumb enough to stick your hand under the dang things....

Likewise don't point the pressure washer at any people , or animals in the yard , and whats the worst thing you can do to a wooden fence anyway ????

If you Mar it , you fix it , but why not do the job when its offered to you , and make the money?????

Seems like everyone thinks that everyone else is always too stupid but hey , the world came along way before any of us were here , and it will be here a long time after we are all gone ....

No offence Pro Wash, so i hope you don't take my statement wrong , but i think sometimes people have to get out from the bubble and learn new things for themselves ...

Otherwise a Mexican will hop a fence and do the work , or someone from India will get the job....

Some 16 yr old kid runs a 4000 psi washer at wal-mart every night cleaning outside the building so how difficult do we really want to make everything out to be????

Thank you for your time ,and patience of my ramblings... TRANNY.......

[Carolina ProWash]

No offence taken at all, but let me clarify my reasoning for a sub here! It falls more under the insurance thing and the fact that he's not done this before. Baptism under fire works very well under some circumstances - I know, we've done it, BUT, our rear ends were covered by the proper wording on our insurance if something went awry! I also suggested that HE WORK WITH THE SUB to learn. I should have elaborated and told him to get someone out of his immediate area - there are guys that will travel several hours to help a fellow pwer - we do it all the time.

And to they guy that asked the question, my phone numbers are in my signature - feel free to call anytime!

Celeste

[TRANSMAN]

That's very kind indeed !!!

No offence taken at all, but let me clarify my reasoning for a sub here! It falls more under the insurance thing and the fact that he's not done this before. Baptism under fire works very well under some circumstances - I know, we've done it, BUT, our rear ends were covered by the proper wording on our insurance if something went awry! I also suggested that HE WORK WITH THE SUB to learn. I should have elaborated and told him to get someone out of his immediate area - there are guys that will travel several hours to help a fellow pwer - we do it all the time.

And to they guy that asked the question, my phone numbers are in my signature - feel free to call anytime!

Celeste

Very nice offer you make Celeste and i`m sure if you decide to hang around you will become a very helpful and considerate / valuable member of the L.S community..

I really only commented because i thought things were just a tad slow, being everyone is out and about preparing for their first cuts , so adding any input that may possibly be helpful i figured even my slight opinion might liven things up , and encourage others who are mainly reading to join in the discussions...

The forum is only as good as the members putting forth their opinions and life experiences , so i hope to read more of the vast knowledge of pressure washing you appear to have...

The more the merrier i think would apply in forum land , so i hope to be reading many thoughts and input from you and your partner or husband...

This is not the place to be shy , and i like advice from real life experience over books if i can get them... Thanks for the reply , TRANNY............

[Scott]

a couple things I forgot to mention:

Ready Seal is another product that I've been meaning to try. From everything I've read it's supposed to be fairly easy to apply and fairly friendly.

Also have a few extra boards on hand to replace your first couple that you'll destroy.

ANDDDDDD watch out for what's called furring. It happens but after time you'll see what you're doing. If you get too close, too much pressure or use the wrong tip, you'll get what's called Furring. It'll look like little bits of fur and all you have to do is do a quick sand job.

[FreeRadical 45]

Everyone, thanks for all the replys. To answer a few of the obvious questions I should clarify that I am no novice to using a power washer. I have had one for years and have used it frequently at my home, shop, and for a few friends without charging anything.

I was certainly after any recomendations as far as chems and the correct pricing structure.

I see this as a huge chance to break this into my service offering. I checked the local yellow page ad and there is one listing for this service in the Anderson and Muncie area. So I think the chance for this to be a profitable part of my current operation is a real possibility.

With the only compariable price guideline being the one listed service I would really like to make this a sprinboard to other jobs but make it profitable also.

We will be on this site for 2 days, 450 shrubs to trim, 50 yards of mulch to lay, so I can easily ad a man to perform the other service on the fence.

Again, I was after the price guidelines and chems that the pros use. All of the info you guys and gals gave was great.

One more question, what type of stain applicator do you use? What would be your recomendation for a good commercial unit? Any other points I need to consider is appreciated.

Thanks
Ron (Free Radical)

[FreeRadical 45]

Everyone, thanks for all the replys. To answer a few of the obvious questions I should clarify that I am no novice to using a power washer. I have had one for years and have used it frequently at my home, shop, and for a few friends without charging anything.

I was certainly after any recomendations as far as chems and the correct pricing structure.

I see this as a huge chance to break this into my service offering. I checked the local yellow page ad and there is one listing for this service in the Anderson and Muncie area. So I think the chance for this to be a profitable part of my current operation is a real possibility.

With the only compariable price guideline being the one listed service in my area I would really like to make this a springboard to other jobs but make it profitable also.

We will be on this site for 2 days, 450 shrubs to trim, 50 yards of mulch to lay, so I can easily add a man to perform the other service on the fence.

Again, I was after the price guidelines and chems that the pros use. All of the info you guys and gals gave was great.

One more question, what type of stain applicator do you use? What would be your recomendation for a good commercial unit? Any other points I need to consider is appreciated.

Thanks
Ron (Free Radical)

[Scott]

get a quality airless. watch your pressure again, keep the fogging down and don't forget to cover bushes, buildings and whatever else is in the way.

Another guy to listen to on those forums when it comes to wood resto would be Everett Abrams

[Carolina ProWash]

You dont' want to apply Ready Seal with an airless - it will atomize the stain too much and you'll stain everything EXCEPT what you're aiming at! You can go with a pump up and have nooo problems. I'm certain you are more than adept at using those from time to time and will move quickly using a Ready Seal type stain. There's also Wood Defender made just for fences that is a quality stain and less expensive. If you're looking to add staining as a regular service, most guys use a Deckster (around $700)....they'll spray anything AND you can apply your chems with it as well. I don't know of anyone that has one that has regretted the investment (you can't ever find a used one!)

Ron, I again want to caution you about your General Liability covering pressure washing. Please, just for me, check with your agent In the hopefully unlikely event that something does go wrong, it would suck to lose credibility with a commercial account!

So, since you're going to be doing this - welcome to the wonderful world of pressure washing too!

Celeste

[Scott]

You dont' want to apply Ready Seal with an airless -

Celeste

errr did I forget to mention that? (she doesn't ever miss a beat)

Celeste did mention a few other pieces of equipment to use and some other stains/sealers, and if you're serious about expanding your bizness toward wood/fence resto, you'll just have to experiment and see what works best for you.

OH!!!! and one last thing.

WARNING!!!
THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE!
ANYTIME YOU FIND YOURSELF ATOMIZING STAINS, WEAR A RESPIRATOR! NOT JUST A MASK BUT A REAL DEAL RESPIRATOR!

I prefer one with a mask that covers my entire face along with a tyveks complete cover-all which covers head to toes.

[FreeRadical 45]

Thanks Scott and Celeste! You guys have been a big help. And Celeste I will check the liabilty coverage for the power washing.

I am not sure if I am covered for this service or not, I know I carry a mil in liablity insurance and I would think if I am not covered the cost would not be that much more.

It appears I need to pick up some additional training and I think I can come up to speed pretty quick.

Celeste, (and Scott) if you do not care I may send you a personal message from time to time if I run into something I am unsure of.

Thanks Again!!
Ron

[Carolina ProWash]

PM, email, call, whatever!

Celeste

[New Look]

Ron,

Another good source of information about pressure washing is www.thegrimescene.com