Minimum wage increase?

[MOWANDGO]

Well here in Ohio from what I've heard it's already $7.25 per hour, and as for how it affects area mowing crews I would probably say it won't most of the crews around here don't seem to be legit business, so I'm sure they are not paying minimum wage. For my business purposes, I pay $8.50/ hr. minimum, so I don't think it will affect me too much.

[jagmagic]

Yeah, no kidding.

Let me paraphrase this. Some of you guys are bellyaching about someone stealing gasoline out of your bulk tank with an eyedropper, but you're turning an oblivious eye to the SOB who has a 2 inch in diameter hose and a pump hooked up to it, pulling 100 gallons a minute out the back of your shop and into his tanker truck.

Something about not being able to see the forest because of all of the trees in the way??

Woody, I'm not disputing the fact that what is wrong with the economy is more of a curency issue than anything else, that's just not what this debate is over.

If I was debating which is better, the whopper or the big mac. You come into the conversation and say something like "fast food is killing America and is a leading cause of obesity". While being very much correct in your statement, it's not really prudent to the conversation at hand.

I agree with you and whoever it was that made the point about the currency, you guys are correct. I believe most reading this post are intellegent enough to understand what you guys are talking about. I'm not trying to arguing that fact.

It just doesn't change the facts in this debate that's all.

[jagmagic]

Bottom line: your pissed because you have to pay for something you don't want to understand, Blaming Unions and Democrats wont make anything any clearer for you.

BTW I am not a Democrat FYI

I'm wondering if you even read the post you are replying to. I'm not concerned about paying my employees a little bit more, but I'm not giving them a $2.15 pay raise until they earn it. I'm in the same boat as the poster you replied to. I only have one employee who is under that $7.25, but by the time it takes affect he will have earned raises that will having him exceeding that mark by at least $1.25 by the time it goes into affect fully. However, it's not fair to him how he is having to work for his raises while the nosepicking burger flippers down the road at the local hamburger joint can keep on with thier slacker habits and make nearly as much as him. It is rediculous and I can't beleive you can't even acknowlage that that isn't fair.

Get off your soapbox about the rest of the government and join this conversation. Give me a reason the min. wage increase will benefit me, or you. Give me a rundown of who and how you think the min wage increase will help our current economy or it in the near or distant future. Please don't take this personal, I understand you feel strongly about the points you have made, and I do agree with them, for the most part. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want you to explain without referring to political decisions from the past how you see this change playing out posatively in the immidiate, near, or distant future?

[rustyt22]

I'm wondering if you even read the post you are replying to. I'm not concerned about paying my employees a little bit more, but I'm not giving them a $2.15 pay raise until they earn it. I'm in the same boat as the poster you replied to. I only have one employee who is under that $7.25, but by the time it takes affect he will have earned raises that will having him exceeding that mark by at least $1.25 by the time it goes into affect fully. However, it's not fair to him how he is having to work for his raises while the nosepicking burger flippers down the road at the local hamburger joint can keep on with thier slacker habits and make nearly as much as him. It is rediculous and I can't beleive you can't even acknowlage that that isn't fair.

Get off your soapbox about the rest of the government and join this conversation. Give me a reason the min. wage increase will benefit me, or you. Give me a rundown of who and how you think the min wage increase will help our current economy or it in the near or distant future. Please don't take this personal, I understand you feel strongly about the points you have made, and I do agree with them, for the most part. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want you to explain without referring to political decisions from the past how you see this change playing out posatively in the immidiate, near, or distant future?

Im glad Im not the only person seeing this. I agree 100% with what some of you have said about currency not being backed by gold hurting our economy. That was a horrible decision! I agree 100% that it caused inflation to spike and hurt our GDP and so on. It just doesn't make me go, "Oh! That's true. Inflation is already happening because of our governemnt's currency decision, so let's raise the minimum wage to throw inflation up even more!" That just doesn't link to me. The old saying goes that, "2 wrongs dont make a right." Just because our money system is broke and in desperate need of repair doesn't mean that we make another bad decision of raising the minimum wage.

Anyways, Im actually going to agree with sx on something else in this post too. We're beating a dead horse. Some people are always going to believe that raising the minimum wage is a good thing, and some people aren't. One more quote and I'm done. "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still." I have better things to do with my time than discuss policies that are going to pass anyway, no matter who changes whose mind on these message boards. It was fun seeing other points of veiw though. Hope y'all have a great week!

[Stephen M.]

I've been gone for several days and I have read some excellent posts regarding the pros and cons. I suppose what would sum up the pro and con is the issue of worth.

I wish that I kept an opinion article written by a national syndicated columnist regarding the issue of "worth". In the context of his article, he was writing about sports figures who were paid in multi-million dollar contracts which many of us would say that So & So isn't "worth" that much money, like say A-Rod working for the NY Yankees. His point is that someone like A-Rod is worth that kind of money because George Steinbrenner (sp?) is willing to pay it. In fact, all of the top earners in the Yankees are worth it because George says they are worth it; and the fans say so because they are willing to pay the money to see these guys, including the tv rights and so on. Even though I don't think A-Rod is worth that kind of money, its not my decision. But then again, a rookie player wouldn't be making that kind of cash for awhile. "Worth" is in the eye of the beholder.

There have been plenty of people I paid a good wage to who ended up disappointing me and in 20/20 hindsight I decided that I would have been better off paying only minimum wage to; but that was my bad for not doing my pre employement homework.

One arguement against the min. wage increase that I can agree on is the one made that it has limited the number of jobs out there that actually do pay that wage. There are statitics in WA State that would support that. The Labor Unions in WA would also agree with those stats, but their counter arguement is that even though there are fewer entry level jobs available, at least those jobs now pay better.

[clclawn]

I'm not sure if your post is a change of hart or just a comment, but the idea behind it is this, Worth is determined by the employer not the government. Lets say My lower level employee's make 8 an hour, and i decide to hire someone to come in in the evenings to wash equipment and clean the shop, that is not worth the same as someone out producing revenue. It is my decision what to pay this person not congress.

[Stephen M.]

I'm not sure if your post is a change of hart or just a comment, but the idea behind it is this, Worth is determined by the employer not the government. Lets say My lower level employee's make 8 an hour, and i decide to hire someone to come in in the evenings to wash equipment and clean the shop, that is not worth the same as someone out producing revenue. It is my decision what to pay this person not congress.

I wouldn't say its a "change of heart", but I can argue both sides of the issue because I can see it from both sides.

I do agree w/ you that it should be your decision if you want to pay someone MORE money than the accepted minimum, however, since you and I live with a minimum standard of some sort, we just have to deal with it in the best way we can.

Yes, its all inflationary, but the marketplace adjusts and we all settle back into the satus quo: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But the poor have another $2.10/hr to put into his pocket or into his addictions.

But unlike Wenied's position, that $2.10 min wage increase has little to do with the price of milk. The price of milk, from dairy farm to grocery shelves, has more to do with the cost of transportation. Also, if that gallon of milk is being purchased from a "convenience store", that increase in minimum wage is only a drop in the bucket full of water. That's because you are already paying an inflationary price for the "convenience". If its purchased in a grocery store, its still a drop in a full bucket of water because its only one of several thousand items being sold in a razor thin profit margin of most grocery operations.

But I didn't start this to rehash what has been well said on both sides. Paying a couple bucks more isn't going to affect my operation.

[wenied]

I wouldn't say its a "change of heart", but I can argue both sides of the issue because I can see it from both sides.

I do agree w/ you that it should be your decision if you want to pay someone MORE money than the accepted minimum, however, since you and I live with a minimum standard of some sort, we just have to deal with it in the best way we can.

Yes, its all inflationary, but the marketplace adjusts and we all settle back into the satus quo: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But the poor have another $2.10/hr to put into his pocket or into his addictions.

But unlike Wenied's position, that $2.10 min wage increase has little to do with the price of milk. The price of milk, from dairy farm to grocery shelves, has more to do with the cost of transportation. Also, if that gallon of milk is being purchased from a "convenience store", that increase in minimum wage is only a drop in the bucket full of water. That's because you are already paying an inflationary price for the "convenience". If its purchased in a grocery store, its still a drop in a full bucket of water because its only one of several thousand items being sold in a razor thin profit margin of most grocery operations.

But I didn't start this to rehash what has been well said on both sides. Paying a couple bucks more isn't going to affect my operation.

Wow..this thread is really getting long.

Stephen...i made the argument using a gallon of milk as an example based on the following: A friend that owns a small grocery store mentioned to me that if he has to increase pay by $2.00/hr for his employees the only way he can recoup these costs is by increasing grocery prices storewide. This means that milk..and everything else will increase in price.

[Stephen M.]

Wow..this thread is really getting long.

Stephen...i made the argument using a gallon of milk as an example based on the following: A friend that owns a small grocery store mentioned to me that if he has to increase pay by $2.00/hr for his employees the only way he can recoup these costs is by increasing grocery prices storewide. This means that milk..and everything else will increase in price.

Your point is well taken, but its No real surprise there since everything has gone up with higher fuel prices and very little has come down even with lower fuel costs. What would concern me more is if a gallon of milk went the way of the old half gallon of ice cream. We all pay more for less, even if the price has remained the same. What gets me is that our local QFC [owned by Fred Meyier, aka Kroeger] was running summer specials on Dreyers, Breyers, and Ben & Jerry's in which you either got 2 for the price of one, or $2 off the store price. My observation was that if people weren't buying ice cream at the retail price of $5.98/ 3 quarts, then the price of ice cream needs to be adjusted. I can't believe that it was just being used as a loss leader all summer long.

[jagmagic]

Your point is well taken, but its No real surprise there since everything has gone up with higher fuel prices and very little has come down even with lower fuel costs. What would concern me more is if a gallon of milk went the way of the old half gallon of ice cream. We all pay more for less, even if the price has remained the same. What gets me is that our local QFC [owned by Fred Meyier, aka Kroeger] was running summer specials on Dreyers, Breyers, and Ben & Jerry's in which you either got 2 for the price of one, or $2 off the store price. My observation was that if people weren't buying ice cream at the retail price of $5.98/ 3 quarts, then the price of ice cream needs to be adjusted. I can't believe that it was just being used as a loss leader all summer long.

I gotta jump in here again. I can't explain how much I hate the arguement that "since the price of stuff is going up anyway it shouldn't matter"

Come on. Why in the world would one support the idea of increasing inflation at a higher rate if it can be, in even the slightest way, prevented. I can not by into the arguement that since inflation is on the rise anyway we should just all cater to the Demecratic pholosiphy of vote snagging and feel pity for those who can't help themselves.

Even if the price of the said milk goes up by only $.05 I don't feel I should have to pay that just because the demacratic party has to pacify and rally it's base.

IT'S JUST PLAIN STUPID. I don't agree with Bush when he appeals to the religious right, in fact I lose much respect for him, and I don't agree with the liberals when they have to try to push through anti-common sence legislation to try to appease the unions that provide most of the funding for their campaigns.

It's not about the "milk" that everyone apposing this arguement have clammered onto, it's about the price of cars, trucks, mowers, insurance, anything produced by a company with a union, air travel, mass transit, local government workers, sales tax, withheld tax from employees, and the lack of compensation the small to mid-sized business owner gets in regards to these increases.

I understand the idea of taking one aspect of an arguement and debating it to take the focus off the main issue, but it is a very relivant example that was given, but maybe made too simple by the original poster.

I have compasion just as much as the next guy, but I firmly beleive the government should losely govern the rights of labor and civil rights as those issues will, with loose guidelines, be dictated more by the economy and need rather than the law.

[Stephen M.]

y-e-a b-u-t-t, its an interesting tangent like the ones posted by GrassMaster.

The definition of Inflation is: "the overall general upward price movement of goods and services in an economy, usually as measured by the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Index. Over time, as the cost of goods and services increase, the value of a dollar is going to fall because a person won't be able to purchase as much with that dollar as he/she previously could. While the annual rate of inflation has fluctuated greatly the last half century, ranging from nearly zero inflation to 23% inflation, the Fed actively tries to maintain a specific rate of inflation, which is usually 2-3% but can vary depending on circumstances. opposite of deflation." www.investorwords.com

www.inflationdata.com/Articles/Definitions.asp will give more discussion on definitions.

There are more things that factor in, any of which may or may not increase inflation. I read many articles in business mags and newspapers worried about deflation in 2006, which is where our economy could have gone because of the rapid rise of fuel prices.


Have any of you ever researched how a minimum wage came about? For the long version, read Ernest Hemmingway's "The Grapes of Wrath". The short version is that people used to live and work in "Company" towns. The Company paid their employees just enough to keep them from paying off their running tab for rent, goods and services each month, thereby ensuring that the Company had a cheap source of continual labor. Many times, it was just a "legal" form of slavery.

Also, because of the mass amounts of unemployed people in the Great Depression of the 1930's in America, our President FDRoosevelt and Congress legislated the first min wage law. Most of us never got that far in U.S. History class, but it is important to understand why minimum wage was enacted into law.

[Shoal]

I think the government should should bud out and let a free market decide what the wages will be. who set your price? maybe the Government should enact that every senior citizen shall be given a 20% discount for all services. they are the biggest voting block in America. this is the Democrats pimping out to the Unions whose wages are reflected by the minimum wage. Meaning when the Minimum goes up their salary goes up too. the reality is that most people on the minimum wage are kids and people who work a second income or illegal workers. the other reality is that you could set it at 10 bucks an hour and the market will gobble it up. shoal

[jagmagic]

y-e-a b-u-t-t, its an interesting tangent like the ones posted by GrassMaster.

The definition of Inflation is: "the overall general upward price movement of goods and services in an economy, usually as measured by the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Index. Over time, as the cost of goods and services increase, the value of a dollar is going to fall because a person won't be able to purchase as much with that dollar as he/she previously could. While the annual rate of inflation has fluctuated greatly the last half century, ranging from nearly zero inflation to 23% inflation, the Fed actively tries to maintain a specific rate of inflation, which is usually 2-3% but can vary depending on circumstances. opposite of deflation." www.investorwords.com

www.inflationdata.com/Articles/Definitions.asp will give more discussion on definitions.

There are more things that factor in, any of which may or may not increase inflation. I read many articles in business mags and newspapers worried about deflation in 2006, which is where our economy could have gone because of the rapid rise of fuel prices.


Have any of you ever researched how a minimum wage came about? For the long version, read Ernest Hemmingway's "The Grapes of Wrath". The short version is that people used to live and work in "Company" towns. The Company paid their employees just enough to keep them from paying off their running tab for rent, goods and services each month, thereby ensuring that the Company had a cheap source of continual labor. Many times, it was just a "legal" form of slavery.

Also, because of the mass amounts of unemployed people in the Great Depression of the 1930's in America, our President FDRoosevelt and Congress legislated the first min wage law. Most of us never got that far in U.S. History class, but it is important to understand why minimum wage was enacted into law.

As great of points as those are, none of which are relevant in todays society. EVERY person has the opportunity to, and is not hindered by the government in, seeking better employment and way of life. The min. wage increase will NOT change the min. wage workers life as they are choosing to live at that lifestyle. Not 100%, I'm not steriotyping here, but a vast majority. Most of the people at min. wage do not deserve a raise b/c that is why they are working at min. wage in the first place. Their are ample opportunities out their for everyone. We are not in the depression, we are not in a government that allows business and industry to completely control it's employees lives. We are in a shrinkingly free society and we need less legislation to keep it free.

If you want to use labor legislation to fix eveyones financial woes, why not state that every employee should make $15.00 or $20.00/hr. regardless of what it is they do, for that matter, why not make it manditory for people to work 40 hour work weeks and have the government go ahead and supply all health insurance. It works for the french, why not here. All ceo's, business owners, management, and all levels of labor in the workforce should just settle for making the same amount of income, that way the government can succeed in it's attempt to bridge the gap between rich and poor.

I know what I stated is an overstatement of the arguement, but really where should it stop? Why should the government have the power to make decisions for business owners? If wall-mart wants to pay crappy and eventually get a horrible name in the business world for doing so and risk losing it's edge in the marketplace, than let them be free to do that. If Mcdonald's wants to keep hiring the scum of western society to process it's food, than let them face the eventual concequences of doing so. If I choose to pay my employess $8.00, $10.00, or $12.00 per hour to try to keep them with me and working hard than let me make that choice as well.

[Stephen M.]

Good points are made by Jagmagic and Shoal. Like I said before, I can see both sides of the debate and I love good debates.

I got to thinking about my previous post and I did a little research and came up with some interesting stuff. The whole issue being debated here revolves around worth, personal freedom to decide worth, and the effects of minimum wage on the economy with regards to inflation [or deflation].


news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2007118/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy headlines the article re: "Inflation has best showing in 3 years" [for Wenied]

www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm has a History of min wage rates under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938-1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_%28economics%29 is an excellent economic discussion on Deflation. You all really should read all of the 11 printed pages and it is relevant to this debate.


If you all think that Minimum Wage is just a Democrate Conspiricy then please go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage for some enlightenment. In the table of contents, the meat of this debate is in sections 3 and 4. Section 6 discusses the POLICY ALTERNATIVES to minwage, some of which are in practice today.

I will concede that under the Policy Alternatives already in play, the increase in min wage may or may not be a good thing, depending on where a person lives.

[GrassMaster]

Lets starve them until they get a education for a better job!

The min. wage increase will NOT change the min. wage workers life as they are choosing to live at that lifestyle. Not 100%, I'm not steriotyping here, but a vast majority.

A $2 an hour wage will change their lifestyle, there's a big difference between $5.25 & $7.25, trust me a big difference.

Most of the people at min. wage do not deserve a raise b/c that is why they are working at min. wage in the first place. Their are ample opportunities out their for everyone.

There's only so many jobs out there available. Most have little to no choice or they wouldn't be there. There's very little choices for the Young, Inexperienced & the Old. What kind of ample opportunities do the young, inexperienced & old have & what are their options? These people are being taken advantage of, Plain & Simple. A fact! Do they deserve a raise... I'm not even going to go there & discuss that?

We are not in the depression, we are not in a government that allows business and industry to completely control it's employees lives. We are in a shrinkingly free society and we need less legislation to keep it free.

We basically are in a depression, the government has figured out a way to keep the public from seeing it. Businesses & Industries has set charge card fees at an all time high, Insurance companies are milking people for every dime they can squeeze out of them, so is the medical profession. Many others are too, it's just a matter of time before people see it.

I know what I stated is an overstatement of the argument, but really where should it stop? Why should the government have the power to make decisions for business owners?

Because they're happy with the way they are fooling (Screwing) us now, milking us to the limit, if they could get more they can & will and they're not going to stop. Until we change who we put in Politics.

If wall-mart wants to pay crappy and eventually get a horrible name in the business world for doing so and risk losing it's edge in the marketplace, than let them be free to do that. If Mcdonald's wants to keep hiring the scum of western society to process it's food, than let them face the eventual concequences of doing so. If I choose to pay my employess $8.00, $10.00, or $12.00 per hour to try to keep them with me and working hard than let me make that choice as well.

LOL, the Mart stores have been paying people crappy wages for a while, go to Block Buster & get the "Wall Mart Movie, The High Price of Low Cost" and there's numerous books about it too. They have 10's of 1,000's labor disputes against them right now, they've bankrupted 1'000's of Self Employed business owners & doing it daily. They don't get overtime, they get hours taken away from them, it's so bad that some of the store managers have the paper work to help them get assistance because they can't make it on what the they're making? I do not want no part of keeping them living at way below poverty conditions. I enjoy sleeping with a clear conscious.

See a lot of you might not date back as far as me. There's a lot of professions now, that didn't make crap back in the day... But as time goes on a lot of professions have figured out a way to get their just pay. As time goes on more & more will, maybe this is a wake up call for many?

We live in such a selfish society, we don't want to worry about anybody else, this is why this discussion has escalated as far as it has. Why don't we have this many pages on Gas Price Hike, King Bush, 911, Iraq, Middle East & a few other things that not near as important or will effect our wallets like this thread "The Minimum Wage Increase"... Because this one will hit us in the wallet.

The Mart stores, Major Fast Food Chains, Sewing Factories, Thread Mills, Movie Theaters & a few others have been paying crappy & taking advantage of their employees for years. The mart stores in the state of Florida alone had over 8,500 employees on government assistance just a few years ago.

Not all those Young, Inexperienced & Old are working to buy a Ipod, Cell Phone, LapTop, Boom Boxes or whatever. There's a lot of them that are taking that money home to pay the bills, buy a little food & help the family.

One more time... Here's a copy & paste...

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/is...age_minwagefaq

Who are minimum wage workers?
More than one-quarter (26%) of the workers who would benefit from an increase to $7.25 are parents of children under age 18, including 1,395,000 single parents. The average minimum wage worker brings home over half (58%) of his or her family's weekly earnings.

Is $5.25 an hour fair to them? But you've got to look past your wallet & your needs first, in order to see theirs?

OK, it's said 11% of the work force will benefit from the minimum wage increase? Most of these people do not get over time pay, some of these people work over 40 hours but only get paid for 40 hours. Some of these people are forced to work 10, 12 & more hours a day. Some even 6 days a week. They are told that they don't have to give them a break when they're working a 13 hour shift & they've been at work 8:45 minutes. Some of these people miss virtually no work & always on time, they are good at what they do & even though they've been the perfect employee, 1 or 2 years later they still do not get a raise. What in the world is wrong with this? Who's doing this to them...

Like I say it's the big Stores, Fast Food places, Movie theaters & so forth?

OK, now if we take all the millions of employees in the US that work as slaves for US, that's right just so we can enjoy a cheap Burger or a Movie or some cheap crap from one of those places what will that 11% change too? Come on now tell me what that new percentage will be... I bet less than what 5% or less?

I think you will find very few small businesses do not work people for minimum wage or close to it, it's the Big Companies that do the majority of it.

That 16 or 17 year old kid that's there cooking those fries, how many of them are doing it so they can buy the luxuries in life? How many of those girls might have a child & working as a single parent trying to stay off of welfare. Or a young man that got a girl pregnant trying to do the right thing? What if your Dad working at the local thread mill of 20 years gets laid off at age 59, where's he going to get a job at? What if it's your Grandfather that lost his ass on the Enron scandal & he's just trying to keep his home another year & by then his wife will be dead & then it doesn't matter to him what happens...

I reckon I'm the last of the Mohican's that had...

1. More than 1 loved one work at a sewing factory (Sweat Shop) for minimum wage. The good looking ones sleeps with the boss to keep their job, the others just have to work harder to keep production up. I had several that worked at them places.

2. Have a distant relative workng on a farm, in the middle of no where 6 & 7 days a week for $250 a week? I had several Cousins that did.

3. Have a loved one working at a movie theater or fast food place for minimum wage. Yes, both of my daughters did.

4. Have worked at a warehouse loading & unloading 100# bags of peanuts in semi's & train cars? I have for minimum wage & saw others that have been there for years making the same.

5. Working 5.5 days a week removing & reinstalling hot dirty transmissions for minimum wage, under some of the poorest working conditions known to man? I have? My Boss was filthy Rich, but he promised me more to the day I walked out the door. But I was lucky I made it, a lot never make it to the door.

I could go on & on, some of you will be blind to this forever. Those of you that are, are the same ones that think people that make $40K, some think $60K & some think if you make less than $75,000 a year are living at poverty level...

No you're not, you're living a dream come true for about 40% to 50% of Americas workforce. The minimum wage worker is getting an opportunity to do better & make better for themselves & you can't see them because your wallet, SUV, nights out on the town, Boat, expensive toys or Charge Cards are in the way blocking you from seeing them... Shame on you!

Not everybody is allowed to sit on their butt at home & graduate high school.
Not everybody can get lucky & not get their girlfriend pregnant until finishing college.
Not everybody can better themselves if they're working 60, 70 plus hours a week.
Not everybody wakes up & lives in the perfect world with perfect living conditions.
Not everybody bright enough or smart enough than to do better than working at a sewing factory.
Not everybody has both parents in good health with plenty of money & possessions.
A lot of people are just happy & lucky that they have a job they can go to & make a minimum wage?

A lot of folks have a tremendous burden on them from the time they are born. Not everybody have Christmas every pay day & a picnic every meal time. Some never have it easy. It's our duty to do what we can to help them, give them the $2 an hour they've earned it.

I'm doing just fine, but I would never look down on anybody because of their job status, their worth no matter how little, what little they have or what they don't have. I can't turn up my nose to the less fortunate because I was one of them. I made it, but I do have respect for my neighbor, which is any person that I'm aware of.

So I reckon none of you ever had it hard or a relative or friend that had it rough? I reckon when you go to the family reunion all y'all just park your Limos, Helicopters & Private Jets on the air field. Then gather with the Kin folks & talk about the sorry white worthless uneducated trash you've had to look at for the past 12 months while eating, going to the movies or at one of the Mart stores buying crap that you didn't think of until you saw it?

A lot of people can't see the opportunities over past the checkout stand, over the pop corn machine, the cows, the pallet of Blue Jean material. They just work their 60, 70 hours or what ever we've enslaved them too, cash their Mickey Mouse pay check, go home & thank God that when their wife took the baby to the health department that the baby didn't have pneumonia & when it comes supper time they thank God that Uncle All Mighty Rich & Over educated gave them a Ceramic heater so they could stay warm in their house trailer.

The Uncle probably gave a $100 or a $1,000 to the fund raiser for the needy children over seas. But look at who all saw him give that money, nobody but him & his wife know about the ceramic heater & they are ashamed they have sorry kin folks like that.

I can remember when mechanics & body shop workers barely made over minimum wage. It wasn't that long ago that Dentist charged $30 for a filling, now it's $300. Did their cost of doing business go up a 1,000%, no but their cost of living did? Your cost of living is what you set it at, if you don't believe me go check out some of those people living on minimum wage.

You ever hear a poor man say a prayer & then hear a rich man say one. It takes the poor man far longer to say his because he's more thankful for things that the rich man takes for granted daily.

For the life of me I can't figure out why this Minimum Wage Increase thread is getting so much more attention than past issues like Gas Price Hike, King Bush, 911, Iraq, Middle East...

I'm lying, I can see why? If you've never lived or seen it first hand you'll never figure it out. Give the less fortunate a break, it might be their last chance in this life time.

I knew what this thread was going to turn into & that's why I asked for this "Minimum Wage Increase" thread to get started over here in this forum. I'm a Blessed Man, I have a good memory, good eyes and a heart to go with it.

If you lowered minimum wage a dollar an hour everyone of those big companies would still find people desperate & so hard up that they will still be in business working them like slaves.

Everybody knows what to do with the dollar except the man that doesn't have one!