Snow yesterday, 29 degrees, Chemlawn's Out

[crzymoe]

the other way they get away with putting down so many apps is they put down half applications each time. they make their money from their stopping fee.

[SodBuster]

ChemLawn makes 3 apps of preemergent per year. Frankly, you get alot a bang for the buck with chemLawn in our market. Pre-M is a split app. extending the window 180-240 days. Pre-M goes down with broadleaf herbicide knocking down any existing winter broadleaf weeds. ChemLawn starts round No. 1 first week of Jan. because timing of apps. is critical. Their program is very sound. We all owe alot to ChemLawn, hey they created the lawn care market for us.

[Scaper-S2k]

ChemLawn makes 3 apps of preemergent per year. Frankly, you get alot a bang for the buck with chemLawn in our market. Pre-M is a split app. extending the window 180-240 days. Pre-M goes down with broadleaf herbicide knocking down any existing winter broadleaf weeds.

Pre-M does not HAVE to be a split application of 3 if it's put down at the correct time, not just when they want to go out and start ripping people off.

Who needs a window of 240 days to keep crabgrass from germinating? You need an 8 month window????

No reason to have Pre-M going down with a broadleaf killer in Feb around here. Grass is still TOTALLY dormant.

[SodBuster]

I don't see anybody being ripped off, and the lawn services are guaranteed. Pre-M is not a split application of 3, pre-M is split between 2 applications. Pre-M is not labeld for crabgrass only. Many grassy weeds continue to germinate through the growing season, as the soil temp continues to rise.

It would be easier to just make just one app of pre-M but the weather is not always perfectly predictable and timing plays a big role in the end result or performance of the app. Most new neighborhoods have covenants covering weeds in lawns.

[Scaper-S2k]

How can you not see people getting ripped off? It's freaking Feb 11 and snowing. They are out putting stuff down when the grass isn't even going to start growing for another 1.5 months, let alone crabgrass germination. And they are billing for it.

And I will say it again. No one should need a window of 240 days (8 months) for crabgrass germination.




Oh, and yes, Pre-M will keep some other weeds from growing. But it doesn't keep all of them down, so why put it down in excessive amounts besides for crabgrass? I mean, they come by every few weeks to spray for other weeds anyway! So besides crabgrass, any other broadleaf will be zapped with that treatment.

[SodBuster]

What kind of "stuff" are they putting down? You don't even know what ChemLawn is putting down and you call them a rip-off? Come on, before you attack ChemLawn why don't you find out what "stuff" they are applying and why. Obviously the treatment is aimed at the soil not so much the turfgrass plant itself. As the light snow melts the app is immediately and evenly distributed to the target area being more beneficial than long period of dry and or sunny post app weather conditions.

If you mow during a drought and bill for your services are you ripping off everybody? Could you not mow as needed basis only? Sometimes weekly, other times monthly? and bill on a per mowing basis. Clean up leaves only once per year?

[Scaper-S2k]

What kind of "stuff" are they putting down? You don't even know what ChemLawn is putting down and you call them a rip-off? Come on, before you attack ChemLawn why don't you find out what "stuff" they are applying and why. Obviously the treatment is aimed at the soil not so much the turfgrass plant itself. As the light snow melts the app is immediately and evenly distributed to the target area being more beneficial than long period of dry.

There is nothing they need to be putting down right now that benefits dormant grass that was not put down in November and December when they said that same darn thing! Let me guess....

Dec.: "We put down the dormant fertilizer so your lawn greens up quickly in the spring."

Feb.: "We needed to put down an activator to stimulate the fertilizer we put down last late fall."

Wait wait wait, I know, they took soil samples from every one of their customers on my street (when the ground was frozen solid)...and turns out that every single one needs lime....right?

So Sodbuster, you are saying they are putting stuff down on the snow because that's the best time, and it's more beneficial than the dry period???? When do we have a dry period in the spring?




More and more and more chemicals.....ah yes I love the smell!

[SodBuster]

You have not identified the material being applied, but you claim rip-off. You have no serious application equipment, no background in turf science, but ChemLawn is a rip-off?

I have to compete against ChemLawn everyday. I sell my strengths, which keep my very busy. All in all, ChemLawn does a decent job, and their pricing is mostly on lower side. Sure, ChemLawn has applicator problems from time to time but who doesn't? Considering, 3 million customers, and a 30 year track record, I don't see the rip-off no more than you ripping everybody off by servicing your properties to frequently. Running your mow, blow & edge business, polluting the air with fumes and noise. Could you use a hand rake instead of those loud air polluting blowers? Of course not, that is if you want to stay in business.

[Scott]

You have not identified the material being applied, but you claim rip-off. You have no serious application equipment, no background in turf science, but ChemLawn is a rip-off?

I have to compete against ChemLawn everyday. I sell my strengths, which keep my very busy. All in all, ChemLawn does a decent job, and their pricing is mostly on lower side. Sure, ChemLawn has applicator problems from time to time but who doesn't? Considering, 3 million customers, and a 30 year track record, I don't see the rip-off no more than you ripping everybody off by servicing your properties to frequently. Running your mow, blow & edge business, polluting the air with fumes and noise. Could you use a hand rake instead of those loud air polluting blowers? Of course not, that is if you want to stay in business.

come on,,, everybody knows that chemlawn is a scam. They're slowly killing their customers lawns and every organism in it. But then I get the opportunity to come and do a complete relandscape of about one yard a year because of what they do. As a matter of fact I'm working one right now and their last app was Dec.

[Scaper-S2k]

Sodbuster, I'm not ignorant to chem apps. We have many many many properties we maintain. They all get services. But I don't need to keep adding apps to make a buck. The lawns get what they need. Oh, and two of my foremen have their app license and agree with me. Why? Because they don't need to add treatments to make more money either.

By the way, it's not just Chemlawn, I'm sure. See, Scotts and others will HAVE to follow suit because ignorant clients will think others are missing treatments, that weren't needed to begin with!

You keep defending. BUT, you still haven't answered. What do you think they are putting down on every client? Did they test each lawn for lime, and find EACH one needs it? Is this a treatment to green it up quicker even though that's what they claim the late fall one did? Or are they so bad they need the "240 day window"?

[GroundKprs]

The Ignatz Skulyanski's of the world will always be fussing about others making successful advances in any market, SodBuster. Until one has an analysis of what is being applied, complaints about any application just hint of jealousy to me, LOL.

For instance, university research over 10 years ago showed that the window of application for pre-emergent herbicides in our area is roughly November to April - so a pre-emergent app now is not out of professional norms. Yes, an app in late Nov has the same efficacy as an April 1 app. Anyone who would criticize this does not know how pre-ems function and degrade in the turf environment.

[Scaper-S2k]

GroundKprs, you live close enough. What do you think they are applying to every lawn 1.5 months before the grass even starts growing, let alone when crabgrass germinates? One they didn't do in Nov/Dec and not going to do in March, and then April.

And you said an app in late Nov has the same effeciency as on on April 01. GREAT!!! Then tell us what they are going to put down Mar. 01 and April 01?? It could have been one treatment on April 01. But no, they hit them up for Feb 01, Mar. 01, and April, 01.

My God, they will have used 3 treatments by April 01 when 4 treatments for the entire year WILL get you the same results. Hell, I've seen many residential customers use Scotts 4-Step and their lawn looks better.


8-9 treatments a year in the Ohio region is over kill. It's never been done in 40 years, and lawns look just as good now as they did then. Heck, I think they looked better then. So it all boils down to adding treatments for the $$$$, regardless of importance.

[SodBuster]

Erich,

Weeds With February Germination Date In Your Area

Pepperweed
Red/White Stem Filaree
Red Deadnettle
Purple Deadnettle
Peppergrass
Parsley Piert
Mouseear Chickweed
Horsetail
Henbit
Geranium
Field Pennycress
Common Chickweed
Catchweed
Bedstraw
Groundsel

Weeds With March Germination Date In Your Area

Prostrate Knotweed
Buckhorn Plantain
Annual Bluegrass
Cheatgrass
Broadleaf Plantain
Common Mullien
Downy Brome
Oxeye Daisy

Weeds With April Germination Date In Your Area

Blackmedic
Buckhorn Plantain
Bull Thistle
Chicory
Cinquefoil
Common Lespedeza
Common Mallow
Day Flower
Horsenettle
Lambs Quarter
Lawn Burweed
Marestail
Orchardgrass
Purselane
Sheep Sorrel
Spotted Spurge
Yellow Foxtail
Crabgrass
Creeping woodsorrel
Yellow Woodsorrel

[Scaper-S2k]

Yeh sure, if I went out and spread seeds for such weeds, and temps were pushing 60 degrees. But not in well maintained lawns that they have been treating.

When was the last time you saw "Geranium" growing in Feb. in Ohio!!!???

Did you actually read the list of weeds you put down for Feb? Come on now.

[SodBuster]

In your exact area, under your weather conditions, in your exact hood, weeds that germinate in February:

Pepperweed
Red/White Stem Filaree
Red Deadnettle
Purple Deadnettle
Peppergrass
Parsley Piert
Mouseear Chickweed
Horsetail
Henbit
Geranium
Field Pennycress
Common Chickweed
Catchweed
Bedstraw
Groundsel

Erich, you have an awful lot to learn. There is a reason you are not in the app business. Until you have broader knowledge, ability to change and learn, stay with mowing. Trying to compete with ChemLawn and other experts, with your current knowledge would most likely prove disastrous. You gotta learn before you can earn.